Anyone still doing old school (not pressed) PFM porcelain margins?

[protek25]

I guess it's down and dirty, but I found that picosep, from renfert, works great as a seperating medium. I use Hi-Tec Xtreme resin die stone and Dr. Smooth stone liquid/water for all my working models, and that combo absorbs very little moisture. I also use as thin a wash as possible of anybodies thinner based hardener, just for habits sake. Then, I use the dry powder method to apply synspar margin porc, and a condensing brush to condense, and smooth it out. The more sparse the application, the better. It shrinks much less. I glaze all my work under vacuum and I use that program to fire the margins. They come out under fired, but very sharp. Sometimes a little correction is needed, if the shoulder is a deep one, but usually it is very close. When I build the porcelain, I use an opaceous body around the margin, condensing it again with condensing brush, then a regular build up. The margin finishes vitrifying on the body bake, and keeps its sharp edge.
Works for me, though the investment liquid method for bridges sounds interesting!

 

[protek25]

Knocking on wood doesnt belong in our industry. We need to tell the Doctors when a porc. butt margin cant be done. Just because we 'can' do it doesnt mean it should be. The chances of failure are high. Just because it was seated doesnt mean the end of the story. Its not good business, its not fair to the dentist or espesially to the patient. I imagine that every case I do is going in my mouth. If we let one impression slide by, we're saying "sloppy spoken here", and weve set a new standard. A lower one. For You, the dentist, our industry... leave the toyota crowns over-seas.

With all due respect, If I want to make a living today, then telling dentists that I won't do their case doesn't seem wise. What I do is do the case, and send along a "suggestion" that prepping the case with a little more this, or that will give even better results the next time. Doesn't always get the same results, but over time, it has worked.
If you want to get real sticky, I think that graduating dentists with straight As on their report cards, but never even checking if they can use their hands, or turning their heads when "watching" them on their chairside "experience" in school would go much further towards quality dentistry. The dental profession is full of guys who are smart as heck, but can't put air in their car's tires. When I encounter preparations that need help, I do what I can to help them, with the reasoning that I will do the best possible job for THAT patient. The replacement lab might not.

 

[toof makr]

i may be missing something here but please full me in. once the impregnated wax is applied over the margin how is the wax removed?

you put as much porc into the wax as possible...you'll know...too much porc and the wax won't "melt" into the powder...keep adding powder 'till you can't get it to a "liquid state" ...w/ your wax wand...
then, apply margin...look @ the slide w/ the tissue, using the wand to draw out as much wax as you can...use a light wax...as opposed to a heavy wax like sticky wax...just an example...and the rest of it will "burn out" during the firing process...

 

[schultz]

Mr. DeVreugd,
Where might I purchase .0005 platinum foil. I have .001 currently. Thanks.
Chris

 

[JohnWilson]

Most any alloy dealer will carry that gage.

 

[schultz]

I called Jensen and Argen and neither one carry .0005.

 

[DMC]

Elmers glue and water. (my idea, sue me if you don't like it)

or

Vita's margin porc that gets hard like concrete. Has a water activated binder in it.

DVS very special seperator. (liquid plastic)

Great combo!!

 

[JohnWilson]

I called Jensen and Argen and neither one carry .0005.

Hmm thats odd I would swear that we ordered some from Argen about a month ago. Perhaps it was PD foil in that gage. I will have to check.

 

[sixonice]

I called Jensen and Argen and neither one carry .0005.

i just checked the ivoclar catalog and they have the .0005 platinum foil. it sells in 1/2 dwt. swatches.

 

[DeVreugd]

Mr. DeVreugd,
Where might I purchase .0005 platinum foil. I have .001 currently. Thanks.
Chris

I see you have the answer.... Ivoclar.

Russ

 

[schultz]

i just checked the ivoclar catalog and they have the .0005 platinum foil. it sells in 1/2 dwt. swatches.

Thanks so much.
Chris

 

[WilliamJ]

first fire per manufacturers recommended instructions. 2nd fire i mix margin powder with dentsply pro bond adhesive. get it to a tick consistency add it to margin off die, push on the die gently trim excess with an instrument, zap with a my light curing unit 20sec to 1min. remove and fire. i think ron able thought this up back in the 80's.

 

[odchamp]

The separator i use and could not do without is Separator x2000, don't know if you can get it in the states but in my opinion it is the very best.
I get mine from prestige dental in the uk, info for uk labs i guess.