How Much the Doc Charges

[Gru]

Like Doug, I don't really care what the doc's make. I am only tired of being told we charge too much when they drive away in their 3rd late model car and take 3 or 4 vacations a year- none of which most techs can afford. I'm glad they can take them, just don't take them at our expense.

 

[dmonwaxa]

This is a life long source of despair for technicians. Here's my 2 cents on it. I don;t care what the doctor charges the patient. That is between him and them. I am not a Wal-mart type lab, nor am I a high end outfit. I just want to make enough money to provide better than average salaries for my staff and myself. Some benefits, time off paid, and vacation. I get so pissed when a doctor says that I charge too much for Emax because, "Well it's so easy to produce you shouldn't be charging that much for it." He/she can F-off. I work a lot of hours, that pressing furnace wasn't cheap. I have an understanding of the process that you can't get in a big production lab. I'm a small outfit and my economy of scale is different than the big box lab. I provide services that the docs can't get there. I am 100% accountable for what we produce, I can't pass the buck. I have NEVER understood why a monolithic Emax was less money than an Empress crown. Technicians have killed the goose that laid the proverbial golden egg when they started giving away Emax. That should have been the windfall income for labs that they have deserved for years. Just because it has a lower production cost doesn't mean you give it away. I've looked at fees for my accounts this year, they are all raising their prices, me too. I'm getting the annual "We have to raise our prices to you" letters form all the suppliers. I'm not being selfish or greedy, I just want to make as good a living as an "unskilled" person can and provide for my family.

That's was well said Doug and Gru. On the other hand not caring what the doc charges what equates to raping the patient. Then in turn attempts the provibial rollover and does it to you without a hug much less a kiss! To your points regarding eMax from the doc's standpoint and the lab standpoint, you Sir, are right on point! I could not agree with you more. Now many have invested thousands of thousands of dollars only to sell for even less. I only want to open eyes others on here especially the newbies.

 

[Adi]

Can you guys tell us how much is the average fees for doctors and techs for :
Porcelain on metal
Porcelain on zirconia
E.max

I just want to see if it's the same around the world ,the ratio that is . I mean does docs charge twice or triple the lab ?

Sent from my K00Z using Tapatalk

 

[dmonwaxa]

Can you guys tell us how much is the average fees for doctors and techs for :
Porcelain on metal
Porcelain on zirconia
E.max

I just want to see if it's the same around the world ,the ratio that is . I mean does docs charge twice or triple the lab ?

Sent from my K00Z using Tapatalk

Fees vary, and it depends on whether it's a fee for service practice or one that is based and capped by insurance. The days for practices charging 2-3 times the lab bill is ling gone, they're certainly not charging $200,$300, or even$400. Its quite a bi more un this case, its like 19Xs that.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Doctors in my neighborhood, Financial District NYC, charge $2300.00ish for a crown...

Some doctors in this neighborhood are over charging, some should actually be charging more. IMO

 

[rkm rdt]

Forget what the average fee for a crown is. It doesn't make any sense to measure to an arbitrary number.

This is what causes the race to the bottom. Each year the average drops because everyone wants to come in slightly under it.

In my area drs would estimate lab fees at 60% of their fee ( for insurance).

That means if they charge $600 for a crown then the lab fee should be under or around $360.

I've said it many times on here that lab fees should always be separate from the drs fees as it is here in Canada.

That is your solution to the problem.

 

[Mrs.galfriday]

I read somewhere (Dental lab periodical) crown fees were typically one fifth the dentist charge. It may have been LMT. My attempts at gathering knowledge have not been rewarded but I gather $1200.oo fee from a Dentist is typical for our down-scale area. Nearby I would assume $2000 is not unheard of. How is that for a guess? This would mean I am waaaaay undercharging.

But that is not true from the other information I have tried to gather. The other Lab owner I share space with charges only $120 for a PFM (outrageous!). Her BF dentist is driving her boat. Go figure. She actually argued that dentists have astronomical school loans to pay off. I will have to scrape her off soon.

 

[Affinity]

**showing restraint** Comparing the US to anyone else is apples and oranges. This is like saying china should be charging more because the US labs get $100 for an FCZ. I used to get $600-800 for a crown.. so what does that mean? Everyone else should charge that here in the states? When a lab tech goes through 8 years of school, hundreds of thousands in student loan debt, and carries tens of thousands of dollars in overhead every month having less than 5-6 employees, then we can guilt the Drs for what they charge. I have a Dr (excellent Dr) that accepts medicaid and gets paid $400 for a crown prep, because hes not out for money (per se),hes doing it as a service to those who need it.. and I adjust my fee accordingly.

Theres a market for everything, some are just smaller than others... Why do you think GW is so popular? Good luck getting that $240 for an FCZ here... Show of hands (other than Al) who gets that in the US? Sounds like the typical $$ envy of people who didnt make a commitment to become a professional.. I for one, am perfectly happy not sticking my hands in random peoples nasty mouths everyday.

 

[Mrs.galfriday]

I am showing restraint as well. I agree that not everybody can charge maximum. I am among that crowd. I agree that greed is ruining this fabulous country. I have told my docs that we are not out to join a country club or drive a Vet. Which is why we proudly announce we are handmade and I am diligently updating my skills from the good people here. Yes, Al gets a pass. He is talented as well as generous with his findings. AND, he earned every bit of it with his hard labor.

In fact I will divulge the unmentionable. We charge 147.00 per PFM, $200 for Emax. I will probably offer a promo once the lab is relocated and we can start marketing again.

The animosity comes out of greedy large lab owners out snobbing the dentists. Dentists are a member of the medical community and one upping them is not viewed lightly. The rest of us get tarred by these greedy slave drivers.

 

[rkm rdt]

***showing restraint****

Quit your whining then.

 

[Sam-CAP]

Forget what the average fee for a crown is. It doesn't make any sense to measure to an arbitrary number.

This is what causes the race to the bottom. Each year the average drops because everyone wants to come in slightly under it.

In my area drs would estimate lab fees at 60% of their fee ( for insurance).

That means if they charge $600 for a crown then the lab fee should be under or around $360.

I've said it many times on here that lab fees should always be separate from the drs fees as it is here in Canada.

That is your solution to the problem.

Isn't that controlled by the Canadian Government?

 

[rkm rdt]

No , The fees guides are determined by the dental associations.

You may be thinking of Britain.

 

[GAP]

I met with a couple of friends on Sunday and naturally since they know what I do they asked for input.

They both needed some dental work done, four posterior crowns each. One was quoted 8K for the four crowns, no root canals etc. Straight shot. The other was quoted a little over the 8K but nothing really significant for pretty much the same treatment. I'm sure there are some slightly different things involved in the treatment hence the difference in the quotes. But 8K for four crowns? What are they paying the lab for FCZs or even pressed mono eMax? This seems like its an outrageous fee especially for their location and the type of practice. This is one of those large chain practices like the one named after an insect,,,Lepidoptera. I know for certain they pay rock bottom prices to either westcoast labs or outsource to china. But really? 2K per crown and they spend less than a hundred on lab fees for the crown? If the send it offshore the spend even less; probably 1?2 that amount. Something is very wrong. Thoughts

a dr. fee of 2,000 is on the higher end. around me the price ranges from $1000-1800. the largest percent of dr's around me charge 1200-1400, with maybe 2% charging $1800.

I think your friends need to keep shopping. I wouldn't pay 2,000 for a crown unless the dr had AACD, LVI, etc. certs hanging from his wall

 

[dmonwaxa]

Remember this is from an "affordable".... discount chain practice.I did steer them away from that to a couple of other practices in the area

 

[Ron.Ferland]

This is a life long source of despair for technicians. Here's my 2 cents on it. I don;t care what the doctor charges the patient. That is between him and them. I am not a Wal-mart type lab, nor am I a high end outfit. I just want to make enough money to provide better than average salaries for my staff and myself. Some benefits, time off paid, and vacation. I get so pissed when a doctor says that I charge too much for Emax because, "Well it's so easy to produce you shouldn't be charging that much for it." He/she can F-off. I work a lot of hours, that pressing furnace wasn't cheap. I have an understanding of the process that you can't get in a big production lab. I'm a small outfit and my economy of scale is different than the big box lab. I provide services that the docs can't get there. I am 100% accountable for what we produce, I can't pass the buck. I have NEVER understood why a monolithic Emax was less money than an Empress crown. Technicians have killed the goose that laid the proverbial golden egg when they started giving away Emax. That should have been the windfall income for labs that they have deserved for years. Just because it has a lower production cost doesn't mean you give it away. I've looked at fees for my accounts this year, they are all raising their prices, me too. I'm getting the annual "We have to raise our prices to you" letters form all the suppliers. I'm not being selfish or greedy, I just want to make as good a living as an "unskilled" person can and provide for my family.

Don't leave the greedy bas-turds out of the equation that decided it was a great idea to send work oversees. e.max and outsourcing really got going in the US at around the same time. This MADE it necessary for some less-than-confident lab owners to make the calculated decision to slash their prices to compete with this BS. If we were really smart, we would come together as an industry and start driving up our prices across the board. Also, we would stop outsourcing. There is no reason we make a crown that a PERSON is going to WEAR and SURVIVE with for 10-20 years and not sell it for $500+ per unit. Docs don't go on the cheap with items like pacemakers, stents, and the like. They are laughing all the way to the bank at how f'ing stupid we are when we sell em a crown for $99.00. Really???? We need to take control of our destiny! Who's with me.............

 

[Tayebdental]

All prices war started when a ceo, a graduate of a business school who dose not know anything about teeth took over a big lab and told the lab owners in a business sense there is no defference between selling teeth, hamburgers, or pizza, to them it is a comodity. This is what happen when Wall Street dictate the future of dental technology. Mass production with little profit.

When it comes to Canada, dentist/ labs compensation is more reasonable that the U.S. unfortunately. That is what I mean.

 

[CatamountRob]

When it comes to Canada, dentistry/ labs and the whole procedure are more advance unfortunately than the U.S.

OMG, don't tell them they're more advanced......

 

[Tayebdental]

I am sorry to tell you they are!! Specially dentist / lab relationship.

 

[rkm rdt]

OMG, don't tell them they're more advanced......

It's true.

We've even had our Thanksgiving already.

Try to keep up eh?

 

[Baobabtree]

No , The fees guides are determined by the dental associations.

You may be thinking of Britain.

You are probably thinking of the NHS, affordable dentistry for the British public. Free at the point of delivery for those on income support, disability benefits, pregnant mums and kids. Everyone else has to contribute 80% of the fee the rest being claimed for by the dental practice/doc from HM Gov( our taxes). This system is being tweaked every few years by various governments, not necessarily for the better.
When I started out as a tech the lab fee was roughly 30% of the overall fee the doc would receive, this isn't the case any more for a whole load of reasons,
1. like you guys across the pond Chinese labs offering crowns for £22 etc
2. For many uk labs this has been an important part of their business and losing that income stream hurt them, so some have tried to compete with the prices that outsourcing offshore offers(undercutting really)
3. Dental Practices are being bought up by large corporates who are making big bucks by keeping the cream of the overall fee for the crown for example, pay the doc a portion of whats left, the knock on effect is that the lab is now getting a smaller chunk of that pie. Probably 15-20% now. These fees are less than they were when I started out 25yrs ago, just crazy.
One corporate formulated a list of approved labs a couple of years ago, but to be on that list we were required to sign a contract but it came with aload of strings attached, effectively they dictate what discounts the labs gives them, whether the lab can raise prices for example. We declined to sign and are not on their approved list. The contract sucked. Thats my tuppence worth.