Zirconia is contaminated..

[PinAn]

Hi guys, my sinter let my zirconia contaminate again and again,
Dose anyone can share the experience about this?
like how to avoid ? or how to complete clean?

thanks

 

[DMC]

Looks like bad element?

 

[PinAn]

Looks like bad element?

u mean heat element?

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

get a new element, dishes, and beads...

 

[ayane]

Molybdenum DiSilicide heating elements occasionally need to regenerate their protective silica layer to prevent furnace "yellowing" from molybdenum (which creates a yellowing gas) contamination. See furnace user manual for "cleaning cycle" or "regeneration cycle" and regularly inspect the elements for flaking, which is a sign that the furnace will need to be re-cleaned.

The other option is to buy a SiC heating element furnace. No yellowing, no cleaning, faster/more efficient elements, but the cost is higher.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

The reason for letting your Zirc dry...

At the least with the acid based stains...

Your recomended to dry them under a heat lamp...

I tested and found no difference in color from dried under a heat lamo and not dried under a heat lamp. So why the heat lamp?

Your stains produce gases that are corrosive to the heating elements in the oven...

So dry your zirc before sintering...

And your elements will last that much longer...

 

[Bumfrey]

i don't use a heat lamp. price from dental suppliers. I got a small convection overn for $60. Its got a temp gauge AND a timer. Works great.
As soon as its dental its always extra $.

 

[DMC]

The reason for letting your Zirc dry...

At the least with the acid based stains...

Your recomended to dry them under a heat lamp...

I tested and found no difference in color from dried under a heat lamo and not dried under a heat lamp. So why the heat lamp?

Your stains produce gases that are corrosive to the heating elements in the oven...

So dry your zirc before sintering...

And your elements will last that much longer...

Not true. Acidic stains have absolutly no effect on Silica layer (glass) on the elements.

It is simply a matter of mis-matched CTE, and the Silica will flake off eventually.

You are mis-informed and cornfused on this subject my friend.

The Silica layer will even flake off with the furnace cold and nothing in the furnace at all!

Has nothing to do with what stains you use and how dry they are.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Not true. Acidic stains have absolutly no effect on Silica layer (glass) on the elements.

It is simply a matter of mis-matched CTE, and the Silica will flake off eventually.

You are mis-informed and cornfused on this subject my friend.

The Silica layer will even flake off with the furnace cold and nothing in the furnace at all!

Has nothing to do with what stains you use and how dry they are.

"The subsequent working stage under the drying lamp is necessary in order
to prevent damage to the heating elements of the sinter furnace and optimize
their service life by avoiding corrosion by the acid contained in the Colour
Liquid and a yellow staining of the zirconia structures during the sintering
process. The drying time of the frameworks depends on the size of the
bridge. For individual crowns and small bridges of up to 5 elements a drying
time of 45 minutes is recommended, for larger bridges up to one and a half
hours."http://10859.2.sihosting.net/CustomerData/1/Files/Documents/EN_Colour Liquid_einfärbung.pdf

 

[DMC]

Just drying the stains does nothing to the acids.

They are still there! See the Acids in a glass container? The acids have no effect on Glass (Silica) which is what is covering the elements.

All you are doing is evaporating the carrier liquid (Di-ethelyne Glychol, or Water)

The acids are still left in the zirconia! LOL Now, they are just dried.

I have owned over Thirty furnaces. And you? I have in stock over 150 elements for many many furnaces.

I have designed my own furnace a couple of times.

Believe me, drying the Zirconia is a great thing to do, but has no effect on the life-span of the elements.

Pure B.S.

Just drying the stains does NOT reduce the amount of acidic gas released during sintering. Can't you still smell them just as much?


Scott

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Just drying the stains does nothing to the acids.

They are still there! See the Acids in a glass container? The acids have no effect on Glass (Silica) which is what is covering the elements.

All you are doing is evaporating the carrier liquid (Di-ethelyne Glychol, or Water)

The acids are still left in the zirconia! LOL Now, they are just dried.

I have owned over Thirty furnaces. And you? I have in stock over 150 elements for many many furnaces.

I have designed my own furnace a couple of times.

Believe me, drying the Zirconia is a great thing to do, but has no effect on the life-span of the elements.

Pure B.S.

Just drying the stains does NOT reduce the amount of acidic gas released during sintering. Can't you still smell them just as much?


Scott

Yea but still... Are you gonna send this guy some elements? How does how many furaces you have help this guy?

 

[DMC]

It only build up my experience/knowledge, which I pass on to others.

That is how it helps.

Acid or no acid does nothing to the Silica layer that covers the elements. Period. No effect what so ever on the life-span of the elements

That layer flakes off due to the mismatch of the CTE of the Two atomic-elements.....Molybdenium #42, and Silicon element # 14.

Keeping your elements warm helps.

Drying the stains does not reduce the amount of acidic gas released during the sintering process.

All the acid is still present in the Zirconia.

Does all of this make sense to you now?

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

It only build up my experience/knowledge, which I pass on to others.

That is how it helps.

Acid or no acid does nothing to the Silica layer that covers the elements. Period. No effect what so ever on the life-span of the elements

That layer flakes off due to the mismatch of the CTE of the Two atomic-elements.....Molybdenium #42, and Silicon element # 14.

Keeping your elements warm helps.

Drying the stains does not reduce the amount of acidic gas released during the sintering process.

All the acid is still present in the Zirconia.

Does all of this make sense to you now?

Nope.

It would make sense that a wet coping would produce more gases than a dry coping. Eithier way, I wont argue manufacturer recomended proccess...

If I built you a bridge and told you not to exceed the maximum load, would you say pshhhhhhhhh Ive been over so many bridges...
And the issue is not the layers flaking off of the elements...
Its that this guys Zirconia framwork is contaminated...
Hence, following manufacterers recomended... EVERYTHING... to problem solve...

 

[DMC]

It is contaminated from the exposed Molybdenium.

That actually burns in the presence of oxygen at the furnace's high temp, if not covered by silica.

The burining molybdenium produces the gnarly gas that is responsible for discoloration of the zirconia.

Zirkon Zahn has one solution, to remove the oxygen and replace with argon gas. Amann Girrbach also sells such a furnace.

I know what I am talking about guy. The issue is absolutly the silica flaking off. You are a noob just taking a guess as to what is going on.

I promise you.

So smart-a55, go ahead and explain to me why it is necessary to have the elements coated in glass when using an atmospheric furnace.....

It is because of exactly what I am saying. Only a fool would argue with me on this.

It does not make sense that a wet stain produces more acidic gas than when dried.

same/same. Drying keeps the zirconia from exploding when the stain's suspension liquid would reach it's boiling point. So, you need to dry your sh1t before you get it too hot. That is all.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

It is contaminated from the exposed Molybdenium.

That actually burns in the presence of oxygen at the furnace's high temp, if not covered by silica.

The burining molybdenium produces the gnarly gas that is responsible for discoloration of the zirconia.

Zirkon Zahn has one solution, to remove the oxygen and replace with argon gas. Amann Girrbach also sells such a furnace.

I know what I am talking about guy. The issue is absolutly the silica flaking off. You are a noob just taking a guess as to what is going on.

I promise you.

So smart-a55, go ahead and explain to me why it is necessary to have the elements coated in glass when using an atmospheric furnace.....

It is because of exactly what I am saying. Only a fool would argue with me on this.

It does not make sense that a wet stain produces more acidic gas than when dried.

same/same. Drying keeps the zirconia from exploding when the stain's suspension liquid would reach it's boiling point. So, you need to dry your sh1t before you get it too hot. That is all.

Now I know why people talk down to you on DLN...

You're incredibly rude.

All you need to know is I feel the way I do because of this literature. But because of your ego and the fact that you think your bill nye the science guy. You must insult me and embarrass yourself.


"The subsequent working stage under the drying lamp is necessary in order
to prevent damage to the heating elements of the sinter furnace and optimize
their service life by avoiding corrosion by the acid contained in the Colour
Liquid and a yellow staining of the zirconia structures during the sintering
process. The drying time of the frameworks depends on the size of the
bridge. For individual crowns and small bridges of up to 5 elements a drying
time of 45 minutes is recommended, for larger bridges up to one and a half
hours."

I'm done on this thread, you may have the last word.

 

[JUAN CARLOS LONDOÑO]

¿Parece mal elemento?

hola mi amigo.al parecer tienes mucha experiencia con los hornos de sinterizacion

Simplemente secar las manchas no hace nada con los ácidos.

¡Todavía están allí! ¿Ves los ácidos en un recipiente de vidrio? Los ácidos no tienen efecto sobre el Vidrio (Sílice) que es lo que cubre los elementos.

Todo lo que está haciendo es evaporar el líquido portador (Di-ethelyne Glychol o Water)

¡Los ácidos aún quedan en la zirconia! LOL Ahora, solo están secos.

Poseído más de Treinta hornos. ¿Y usted? Tengo en stock más de 150 elementos para muchos hornos.

Diseñó mi propio horno un par de veces.

Créame, secar la Zirconia es una gran cosa que hacer, pero no tiene ningún efecto sobre la vida útil de los elementos.

BS puro

Simplemente secar las manchas NO reducir la cantidad de gas ácido liberado durante la sinterización. ¿Todavía no puedes olerlos tanto?


escocés

¿Parece mal elemento?

hola ***, tengo un horno de zinterizacion marca kejia, el horno lo compre usado y al parecer venia contaminado, mis trabajos salian amarillentos,cambie los elementos incluso todo el material refractario,para eliminar la contaminacion. ahora sale mucho mejor pero todavia un poco de amarillo ,un colega me dijo que era temperatura y he subido la temperatura poco apoco voy en 1590 y hoy no salio nada de amarillo.
que cree que suceda ? ¿Podrias ayudarme?
el amarillo se detecta en estructuras ht sin pigmento para colores bleach.
pero en las coronas monoliticas crea una capa amarilla y se ve opaca

 

[JUAN CARLOS LONDOÑO]

Simplemente secar las manchas no hace nada con los ácidos.

¡Todavía están allí! ¿Ves los Ácidos en un recipiente de vidrio? Los ácidos no tienen efecto sobre el Vidrio (Sílice) que es lo que cubre los elementos.

Todo lo que está haciendo es evaporar el líquido portador (Di-ethelyne Glychol o Water)

¡Los ácidos aún quedan en la zirconia! LOL Ahora, solo están secos.

He poseído más de Treinta hornos. ¿Y usted? Tengo en stock más de 150 elementos para muchos hornos.

He diseñado mi propio horno un par de veces.

Créame, secar la Zirconia es una gran cosa que hacer, pero no tiene ningún efecto sobre la vida útil de los elementos.

BS puro

Simplemente secar las manchas NO reduce la cantidad de gas ácido liberado durante la sinterización. ¿Todavía no puedes olerlos tanto?


scott

una pregunta scott.cuando sale el zirconio amarillento es por los elementos ?