Tuning the KaVo for high-preformance

[TECHARTISAN]

all I can say is WOW....
Looking good Scott. As a work in progress you seem to be making fast strides towards success.

 

[JohnWilson]

Ah. Can't leave work.

Too much fun.


Oh, John W., I'm kinda bummed out that milling Ti does not produce sparks like it does when we use handpiece. Really a big let-down. I was so looking forward to something like that.

I wonder what the difference is ???

I am totally jellous of what your doing right now with Titatnium. While I was content to be just a CAD person I am really wanting to do some machining and not just click a button and send it elsewhere. November is coming up fast and I will be looking closely at the Pasadena show for something that will fit my needs and still have ROI.

Your guys knowledge of the tooling aspect is awesome and makes me really feel like I know less than nothing almost to the point that I want to forget about the challenge,

If you know me that will never happen I just have to find more time to learn something else.

I am coming to the east coast to present at one of my clients implant seminars the middle of October, I sure wish I had more time and could come by and have you show me all your toys.

Another time I guess, can't wait to see some of your Ti when you get things dialed in.

 

[DMC]

The right CAM can double a machines output and abilities.

Don't skimp-out on that part of the puzzle.

NOW is the time to gain the leading edge!

Edumacate yourself soon on CAM. Very important for ROI if you are milling.

I'm sure you can whip my as5 on Implants though.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

(This is the KaVo milling strategy for Ti.....need I say more?)

Bit harsh Scott!!!!!!! The everest is still one of the besy systems on the market IMO. you said it yourself that you did not take the coping through to completion, I am sure that working with sum3d you have blown KaVo's old milling strategy out of the water but its not fair to put down the fit of the origional software as it is very very good. I know there is room for improvment but we are talking about the Germans here, everything is belt and braces. It took them 10years to develop the system and that was 20 years ago(not bad for a 20year old strategy). Still may go over to the " dark side " myself yet(sum3d software) as I can see it is going to open the system up to do abutments and implant milled bars/bridges. Keep on posting Scott as it looks great.

 

[DMC]

Yeah, I thought about that last night.....

Even with a Z-step of over 120uM....

The left over scallop height of the KaVo is still within the Dental world.

The whole package is very nice! It is a good system.

Just because the next Z level is more than 50um does not mean the fit is more than -/+50um.

The remaining material does not protude much at all.

 

[DMC]

I'll show a screen shot of something I did not understand quite clearly yesterday.

I will retract my statement about the KaVo strategy. Sorry. I'l explain later.....

 

[DMC]

OK. So if we have an accurate cut at 100uM spacing on the rings...we end up with only .003 Scallop Height, or extra material left on the inside surface.

I was very wrong in my assumption on that figure. .003mm is OK I guess?

This is with a 1mm tool diameter or .5 tool radius. (same thing)
It is just obvious to the naked eye, and my camera the difference changing this can make. I think the KaVo Z step is more like 200uM or about rings per mm of depth, and the Scallop height is much greater.

I have mine set maybe too tight? Like at .03uM step?

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

OK. So if we have an accurate cut at 100uM spacing on the rings...we end up with only .003 Scallop Height, or extra material left on the inside surface.

I was very wrong in my assumption on that figure. .003mm is OK I guess?

This is with a 1mm tool diameter or .5 tool radius. (same thing)
It is just obvious to the naked eye, and my camera the difference changing this can make. I think the KaVo Z step is more like 200uM or about rings per mm of depth, and the Scallop height is much greater.

I have mine set maybe too tight? Like at .03uM step?

Have you looked at the different strategies that KaVo has, Fast, Standard and Fine, we use fine on Ti shells and inlays think it is mandatory (fine)for emax
just thinking that the 5 rings per mm of depth on the KaVo Z step may be based on its fast mill setting? could be wrong but you never know, the picture you have shown, is that taken from sum3d or did you find it hidden inside of hypermill?

If you are able to get it down to .03uM then that should give a really nice finish. I think somone is having way too much fun Lol

 

[disturbed]

The right CAM can double a machines output and abilities.

Don't skimp-out on that part of the puzzle.

NOW is the time to gain the leading edge!

Edumacate yourself soon on CAM. Very important for ROI if you are milling.

I'm sure you can whip my as5 on Implants though.

got any pics of them seated on a die? margins..?
popcorn

 

[DMC]

I have no ideaa on the style of KaVo milling I posted.

Sorry. It's a poor test. I don't know enough about it to really comment I guess.

Scott, Send me a die and you be the judge!

Please PM me your email, and I will send you a free shipping label for sample. Grab an old die laying around and shoot it to me.


The pic is of SUM3D Roughing only. The finishing looks too fine to see what's doing looking that far away on graphic simulation.
Scott

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Keep going Scott, I cant get enough of all the things you are putting the Everest through, cant wait to see some of the implant stuff..........

 

[DMC]

I FOUND THE CORRECT TOOLS FOR IMPLANTS!!! Emuge has them in a non-Dental area. Took me hours and hours to find. Got the KaVo style slot in the side. You would need SUM3D to work with the different lengths and shapes for sure.

They are in Germany.
I just need to order and wait....then get an ExoCad scanner. Then.............
all your abutments are belong to us. LOL (internet joke)

I'm buying another KaVo very very soon! Already worked out the deal.
Also looking at a couple more!

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

WOW, I knew you would do it. well done. Do you have to buy an exocad scanner? Exocad have taken over from Geomagic to provide the next platform for KaVo's new milling system Artica, no big thret to Everest looks to me like its aimed at inhouse surgery milling and small labs (going head to head with cerec) anyway as I was saying Exocad will be available for the everest system as a software upgrade once artica has been released so based on that it should give you all the abutments on the market that you need, And I am sure a software upgrade will cost less than a new scanner.

 

[Labwa]

Did you look into putting two more tools on the spindle or is that in the too hard basket at the moment?

 

[DMC]

We can do Four or even more tools right now, but a human needs to change them

If I find something on eBay, I may grab it to try out?

If and when the spindle breaks, I will find the manufacture and check on options.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

very limited options, the manufacturer is KaVo or at least it was, it is now a sister company of KaVo, have a contract with them that states "do not deal direct with customers" but bet you could get it modified in the US have 2 more chucks. The only thing that goes in the spindle are the ceramic bearings and I am sure a man like you could find those?

 

[DMC]

I doubt KaVo actually made the spindle.

Those style spindles/turrets already exist.

Why re-invent the wheel?

The main axis rails and Bearings are from Star in Germany, the Axis motors another company, the PLC computer another company, the milling frame itself came from different company, the pneumatic solonoids and valves came from another company, and so on....

Everything already existed, or was sent out to be made for KaVo by another company. Same with most mills, except maybe DMG and Haas and the big boys.

KaVo made the sticker on the front of mill, and that's probably about it. LOL

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

no honest' they do/did own the company a mate of mine was head of R&D during design of the Everest the one thing KaVo do make in house are spindles for everest and all the hand units they have, lab and surgery! But you are spot on about the rest of it, they took the best Germany had and put it all together. But you try and buy any item that has been designed for Everest outside of KaVo and you will hit a brick wall. No company will risk a 25year repair/replace contract to make a few $'s !

 

[DMC]

Spures are now back up to .6mm LOL

Also, we need Three sprues on Molars. Glad I found that out pretty quickly.

Anything under .6mm will produce varied results. The Titanium I am working with is softer than I first thought. To get good fit and surface finish, the tooth needs to be pretty well supported. There is more force applied to the tooth when compared to Zirconia. The Ti WILL flex!

Also, we have been going down down down on RPMs.
I was a little worried the spindle would have very low torque at such low RPMs and struggle to stay at commanded RPM during ROUGHING. So far so good.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Sounds good Scott, Just set off 4, all on 4 bars should be about 4 hours a bar so thats mill No 1 out of bounds for the next 16hours, glad I picked a second one up. Any way of speeding the bar milling time up within KaVo's hypermill or is it all locked up?