Sirona germany

[Edy]

I'm looking for a nice milling mashine and i crossed over Sirona from germany , they produce this milling mashine with scanner :

inLab Labside Solutions | Sirona Dental

what is the price of this one in other countries ?

anyone has a better choice? other company maybe ?

 

[Drizzt]

First of all you should decide what you want to do with the machine . Do you need a wet mill or just a dry one ? Do you need a mill tha can mill metal too or just soft materials (zirconium , wax , PMMA ) . Then you should decide how much are you willing to spend for the machine . There are several machines that can cover your needs , whatever they are . Sirona's mill , as many of the members here say , doesn't worth its money(and there is a lot of money , at least here in Greece , 80.000-90.000 euros for the whole system ) . I don't have any experience with it , but I know 3-4 labs that has it and it just collects dust , they don't use it . I stayed away from it when I was searching for a machine . Try imes icore , yenadent (Origin if you are located in the U.S.) , or maybe roland if you want a cheap 5 axis solution . Many guys here own a Roland and they are perfectly happy with it . Hope that helps .

 

[paulg100]

run away....

 

[DMC]

FAST!

 

[RileyS]

just so happens i've got one for you and it will save you loss of money! see my ad.
http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f8/sirona-inlab-w-unlimited-dongle-sale-10647/

 

[Edy]

I can't be more thankful for knowing this site

 

[paulg100]

yeah! if only id found it sooner.

you get to learn from my 100K mistake!

"just so happens i've got one for you and it will save you loss of money! see my ad.
Sirona inLab w/ unlimited dongle for sale"

You mean it hasnt sold yet Riley, cant understand why

If your in Europe Edy, I have one for sale also if you really want one.

 

[Edy]

yeah! if only id found it sooner.

you get to learn from my 100K mistake!

"just so happens i've got one for you and it will save you loss of money! see my ad.
Sirona inLab w/ unlimited dongle for sale"

You mean it hasnt sold yet Riley, cant understand why

If your in Europe Edy, I have one for sale also if you really want one.

hehe , after all i heard so far i will pass , but just curious , what is the main problem ? it cant produce metal crowns ? or zirconia ? its slow ? or inaccurate

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

hehe , after all i heard so far i will pass , but just curious , what is the main problem ? it cant produce metal crowns ? or zirconia ? its slow ? or inaccurate

All of the above, and its crap.

 

[Edy]

First of all you should decide what you want to do with the machine . Do you need a wet mill or just a dry one ? Do you need a mill tha can mill metal too or just soft materials (zirconium , wax , PMMA ) . Then you should decide how much are you willing to spend for the machine . There are several machines that can cover your needs , whatever they are . Sirona's mill , as many of the members here say , doesn't worth its money(and there is a lot of money , at least here in Greece , 80.000-90.000 euros for the whole system ) . I don't have any experience with it , but I know 3-4 labs that has it and it just collects dust , they don't use it . I stayed away from it when I was searching for a machine . Try imes icore , yenadent (Origin if you are located in the U.S.) , or maybe roland if you want a cheap 5 axis solution . Many guys here own a Roland and they are perfectly happy with it . Hope that helps .

the roland cant mill metal crowns right ?

what other companies have machines witch can mill metal + zirconia too ?

 

[Drizzt]

No , Roland can't mill metal . It really depends on how much do you want to spend . Yenadent D 30 , D 40 and DC 40 can mill metal . Imes Icore 450i , 550i and 750i also . These were the machines I focused on when I was searching . There are many other companies that produce metal milling machines ,e.g. wieland's 6400 L and many many unknown manufacturers . I ordered a Yenadent D 40 a bit costumized . Should arrive in 6 weeks . Then of course there are the BIG machines (also big money!) . DMG , Roeders , Micron , Primacon . But we are talking about +300.000 euros . Why do you need a metal milling machine ? This was the question I asked myself . After long consideration and research I concluded that D 40 would be the right machine for what I need and want to do . Of course it was within the money I wanted to spend for it . What do you really want to do ? Mill bars and abutments , operate as a milling center for other laboratories ?

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

the roland cant mill metal crowns right ?

what other companies have machines witch can mill metal + zirconia too ?

KaVo Everest mills anything you want it to, to date I think it has over 14 different milling stratergies, Zr(green and Hip),Ti, Pmma, emax, and on and on........... We now scan with Exo and are having lots of fun. I love new toys.

 

[Edy]

No , Roland can't mill metal . It really depends on how much do you want to spend . Yenadent D 30 , D 40 and DC 40 can mill metal . Imes Icore 450i , 550i and 750i also . These were the machines I focused on when I was searching . There are many other companies that produce metal milling machines ,e.g. wieland's 6400 L and many many unknown manufacturers . I ordered a Yenadent D 40 a bit costumized . Should arrive in 6 weeks . Then of course there are the BIG machines (also big money!) . DMG , Roeders , Micron , Primacon . But we are talking about +300.000 euros . Why do you need a metal milling machine ? This was the question I asked myself . After long consideration and research I concluded that D 40 would be the right machine for what I need and want to do . Of course it was within the money I wanted to spend for it . What do you really want to do ? Mill bars and abutments , operate as a milling center for other laboratories ?

Nice , i see u spent lots of time searching , i do that too before i buy anything specially expensive tools , i wanted to know how much cost you the yenadent d40 , and for your question , mainly for this period and next few years i think i will need the milling machine for metal crowns ,mostly and few zirconia too , i want to create fast the metal crowns so i have more time to build the porcelain , these days i spend lots of time waxing and investing , few time remains to do porcelain , this way in the next few months i think i will need a technician to help me , thats why i am thinking if there is maybe a faster way to create metal crowns , and not only for that reason , i want to increase the doctors number too , doing metal faster , i could increase my doctors

 

[STJDENT]

Wissner is good. Straumann is using them.
Laser sintering is something I would recommend. To have milling machine takes your time... But I wont one too Toys for big boys...

 

[Drizzt]

I have spent many many hours searching . Since the previous IDS . I agree with STJDENT that laser sintering is really good . And cheap compared to metal milling or the traditional way . I am using it and love it . But certain reasons made me buy a metal milling machine . One of them was that I want to be able to mill abutments and screw retained bridges at some time , and I want to operate as a small milling center . Why don't you try to increase your client list with zirconium ? It is cheaper to mill than metal , it is better for the patient biologically , and easier to promote it because it is something different than what you are using right now . I don't know the size of your lab , but I don't think that milling metal would be the right choice for a big lab . Where is your lab located ?

 

[Edy]

My lab is in Israel , thought about doing everything zirconia , the thing is strength , doing a big bridge or posteriors for zirconia could be risky , I could spend lots of time recreating the same work , while metal here in Israel its like 90% of the cases maybe even more , and u do have that fear of bridge brake

 

[RileyS]

We have had one bridge break that I can remember and it was because I didn't build the connector thick enough, and probably less than 15 due to porcelain fracture where most were due to poor framework design. We've done well over a thousand bridges. Thats a pretty good record.

 

[Drizzt]

What I am going to do is case selection . Not every case is for zirconium . If we work with the material folowing certain rules , I don't think there is going to be any problem with it . It is not as it used to be 6-7 years ago . Now things are way better with zirconum . I think the mistake the whole dental industry made with this material was that the companies tried to push so much at the begining , and maybe then it wasn't ready . The misuse of it caused all that problems . If it is used properly I think it is a really good material . In our lab 70% is metal and the rest is emax and zirconium . I will try to reduce metal further . Why not offer to my clients something better and cheaper for me , and a machine will do most of the work for it ?

 

[paulg100]

"Laser sintering is something I would recommend"

Lets see your results then,

Dosent touch casting from what ive seen. Four different companies, four different scanners.

Havnt seen 100% sealed margins yet.

distortion/tension issues with bridge spans, welt bands which need hand finishing etc etc etc.

Laser sintered metal is NOT a wonder replacement for casting if you want quality fits.

Someone prove me wrong.

 

[Gita]

Hi Edy,
it's the same here, metal porcelain is about 95% maybe more. Zirconia is slowly increasing.
Why not try to mill wax/ PMMA for casting?