Question from a patient about color

[Kmvb]

Hello. I came here because I can't seem to get answers anywhere else. I am replacing 10 veneers on my upper teeth that are eight years old. Previous dentist did an awful job (color, shape, etc). My teeth are prepped and I went the other day to try on my new set. We settled on B1 which I felt was too dark at the try in. My dentist is hesitant to go lighter. I really want BL4 or BL3. I'm 30 yrs old and have fair skin with a yellow/gold hue. I have medium brown hair and hazel brown eyes. Any advice? Can post photos this evening. My temps are A1 and look yellow to me

Thanks.

I figured that the techs would know best

 

[amadent]

I figured that the techs would know best

that is where you are wrong, you would know best they are your teeth and you should have what ever color you would like
if you want purple teeth that is your decision

 

[tonester]

Your doctor is hesitant becuase if you settled on B1 he nor the lab would want to remake them. That many units is a substantial amount of work. If you agreed on B1 and wore A1 temps which is a similar color and still proceeded (though temps of same porcelain shade usually run light)you may have to repay for a full remake. Honestly this would be justified.

If you strong arm the doc then he will strong arm the lab for a free remake. In this cas the lab is of no fault and deserves to charge in full to the doc. The lab can cose to give a discount but a charge is definately warranted!!!

If you knew you wanted light teeth, you shoud have communicated it clearly,and the doc should have been given yop a very light/bleach temp to test drive.

All that being said, there could be surface colorant/stains on your veneers that can be easily removed and that may lighten them up. Another option is the tech can use something like a material called Lustre Paste and coat the surface of the veneers with white paste to lighten it. It is easier for a tech to darken something and very difficult for them to lighten something. If the doc strong arms the lab this is what they will probably do to fix and not lose money.

It sounds like a lack of communication somewhere and I feel sorry for the lab.

 

[Kmvb]

Yes. But in your opinions, what would be the most complementary shade for my coloring. I don't want them to look too fake. How similar is B1 to BL4? Also some impute on shape. They keep asking me and I don't know what to say. I'll post photos this evening. I'm an interesting case

 

[Kmvb]

Tonester,

there was no lack of communication and they ARE redoing them. The lab I am using will do them 5 times over if need be.

 

[tonester]

Yes. But in your opinions, what would be the most complementary shade for my coloring. I don't want them to look too fake. How similar is B1 to BL4? Also some impute on shape. They keep asking me and I don't know what to say. I'll post photos this evening. I'm an interesting case

Impossible question without seeing you. The color should match you other teeth. If you want lighter than you should bleach, wait a month then pick the color.

Ask the doc to send you to the lab for a custom shade evaluation. Also be willing to pay more money for the redo if there was not a lack of communication.

By you picking colors and asking us out of the thin air raises a red flag to all us techs.

 

[Kmvb]

Ps, also the lightest color of temp my dr could do was A1. They don't carry anything lighter

 

[CoolHandLuke]

I figured that the techs would know best

that is where you are wrong, you would know best they are your teeth and you should have what ever color you would like
if you want purple teeth that is your decision

true, however to directly answer the posed question one might say if B1 is too dark, and A1 is too yellow, try the ivoclar 020-030 shade. brighter without being un-naturally white.

it would not be my preference to send you into such white colors, but that is a shade that is whiter than B1.

b1 is already pronouncedly whiter than most of the restorations we see on a day to day basis. in a dark room (i.e at a club) you will see B1 as a nice bright white. in the superbrightly lit dentists office it will appear yellow. this is natural.

020-030 shades even moreso.

this is of course entirely subjective as was pointed out above. only you can determine how you want to look and even if you wanted purple teeth - thats what you want and we as technicians must comply with that.

re: shape, look at a chicklet. now look at your teeth. if the teeth match the chicklet, you have square, shape. if this does not please you esthetically, ask for rounded distals, or characterization on your buccal area. verbally its difficult to communicate what a smile should look like, however every good dentist has a "smile catalog" at the office for you to look through and determine if the shape of the teeth look nice to your features. all must be discussed with the attending dentist.

technicians tend to get... rather technical.

 

[tonester]

Good luck.

If you're not related to this lab I caution you about saying the lab would remake them 5 times over to this crowd. I'm being helpful and respectful but some on here will lynch you for that statement.

I fear they are probably typing nasty replies to that as we speak/read.

 

[Kmvb]

Technical is good. I don't care if anyone has something negative to say. I'm willing to pay/do whatever I need to get this right this time around. No one is going to be inconvenienced.I'm just trying to gain as much knowledge as possible so that I can make the right decision
.

 

[rkm rdt]

B1 is a natural looking shade as is A1. Most people would love to be in that range but are more like A2 or A3.

Bleach shades can look artificial when doing alot of teeth.If you must have them lighter then stop at the front 4 or 6 but keep the bicuspids at B1.This will look a bit more natural than a row of piano keys. The cuspids(eye teeth) are generally a bit warmer in colour than the 4 front teeth.

This should have been planned out prior to any tryins.

 

[Kmvb]

Thanks RKM. That's super helpful.

 

[GoldRunner]

Put it into perspective!

Anything lighter than a B-1, or A-1 is not a natural shade for 30 plus years old. Dogs have very white teeth, and toilet bowels are very white like the bleach shades. Nothing wrong for asking for an "unnatural shade", but it is BS that the doctor does not have a lighter shade for temps, he is just too cheap to buy it. Now the lab is forced to remake the case by the doctor and will probably not get paid for their work. Why didn't the dentist show you a diagnostic wax up for shape etc? Because he did not want to spend the time or money to do the case the with the proper treatment planning. Sorry to say many dentists suck at comprehensive and aesthetic dentistry, and you might be going to one of them. Just because they are friendly and can sell you an expensive case does not mean they can properly prepare your teeth, manage the soft tissue and take a usable impression.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

aint that the sad truth. proper case planning could have prevented this predicament.

dear Original Poster: next time you have cosmetic work, remember there are 3 things you need to see from the dentist before you even consider getting prepped: 1. the diagnostic wax up. make sure you see this and hold it in your hand. look at it and look hard. this is the thing that will determine how the shape of your teeth will be. 2. see the shade selection. if you don't find a matching shade to the other surrounding teeth, stop and reconsider your decision to go ahead. 3. get an estimate. this includes a timeline so you can plan your next day off work in advance.

if all 3 of those things fits you, proceed. NEVER go on price alone.

 

[Al.]

BL3 is the most popular shade request I seem to get for cosmetic cases.

They can be nice if they are layered to tone them down or give translucency.
Press and stain BL3 can look like a refrigerator door.

These 10 upper veneers are BL3.

 

[Kmvb]

So this is what I'm working with here... These are temps in A1. I have a cross bite... argh... My bottom two centrals are a bridge as I had a car accident as a teenager.. I'm also working with English genetics...

OH NO! I'm not sure how to upload photos... can anyone help me out??

 

[Kmvb]

The first photo is of mine... the two extras are what I'm aiming for

 

[Kmvb]

Here they are looking awful 3 days after temps were placed.... this is outdoor lighting

 

[Kmvb]

thanks Al. those are getting close

 

[ncnewman]

Hi KMVB, I was wondering how your case turned out and which shade you ended up selecting. Would you mind posting an update and photo? Thanks so much!