Feldspathic Veneers - denta patient question

[jvuzy]

Hi Everyone

I am a dental patient having work done on my teeth. It's been a long process for me (12 years)...when I first got a root canal for a dead tooth that turned into a bad veneer...which led to two other bad veneers on a lateral incisor...then an crown, then an implant crown, then doing teeth 7-10...and now possibly 5-12.

My question is my latest try-in was a 4 set of feldspathic veneers for 7-10. The color is too yellow. And they need to be more opaque? Or Whiter... so now we are discussing doing 4 additional teeth to make it 5-12 for sizing issues.

My question is - since the first set is too yellow...how will the ceramist fix this? My dentist talked to me about the ceramist changing the staining...but I thought with feldspathic the color was made through layering porcelain. Isn't staining just like painting on a color and then glazing it? How can you go from a darker color to a lighter color with feldspathic?

After 12 years of this and so much money...I feel like I should not have to settle for a short cut ...which I feel like staining is for feldspathic. I'm not a ceramist nor am I a dentist. I've just spent half my life trying to fix a dead tooth that has lead me to work with a bunch of dentist and ceramist that have given me some good and a lot of bad advice.

Can anyone help me understand how the feldspathic veneers color can be fixed? So I can discuss this with my dentist?

I know some of you will say just let my dentist and ceramist handle this stuff but I can't. Too often dentist have lied to me and told me things are not possible and I need to trust them. Such as I needed a crown for my incisor, to needing an implant to mask out the color...to fixing more teeth because they cant color match to only e.max veneers will work on your teeth because you have an implant.

Thanks

J

 

[doug]

Why don't you have the dentist have the lab explain it to you?

 

[jvuzy]

Why don't you have the dentist have the lab explain it to you?

Hey Doug - because I'd like an outside opinion from someone that is not trying to take my money. As you can see in my introduction, I've been misled quite a bit.

http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/f30/dental-patient-14396/

 

[jvuzy]

Also some ceramist like to believe their work is perfection so they go with the "Trust me, I'm an expert" mentality. So it might be impossible to know what's being told me by my ceramist is true.

Example: Three ceramists ago, working on my 7-10 ...made one tooth too small and everything was way too sharp, masculine and the line angles too deep. I flew from NY to LA to visit him in person (second consultation...after bonding and before a redo). First thing he says to me when I come in..."Your smile looks great, perfectly bleached! They look amazing!!" Then I point out the flaws and he says no that's how they have to be...we just need to add a little warmth to the top of this one crown... I go back to my dentist, he admits I'm correct, ceramist is wrong, and puts another ceramist on the case. I didn't end up redoing the case with this doctor though bc his new ceramist was some newbie. But even my current dentist admits that ceramist did a terrible job.

So hope that answers your question. Now if you could answer mine..I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[Dentalmike]

Your treating team may not be aware that you understand so much about materials. The observations are generally correct that you made. Labs may do any combination of techniques to get something the way you want, so staining may have just been the language they felt you would understand, im not sure. I would concern yourself more about weather you like your results. most people use technique and materials they have skill with, so bottom line will be " how does it look" over how they got there. I think care wise, the approach that saves tooth structure for long run and looks good at speaking distance. Not every problem, specifically covering a dark tooth, can be 100% overcome. Put health first. Most lab people are sympathetic to your frustrations, however we are in service to doctors and can only do our best through that relationship. Good luck.

 

[jvuzy]

Your treating team may not be aware that you understand so much about materials. The observations are generally correct that you made. Labs may do any combination of techniques to get something the way you want, so staining may have just been the language they felt you would understand, im not sure. I would concern yourself more about weather you like your results. most people use technique and materials they have skill with, so bottom line will be " how does it look" over how they got there. I think care wise, the approach that saves tooth structure for long run and looks good at speaking distance. Not every problem, specifically covering a dark tooth, can be 100% overcome. Put health first. Most lab people are sympathetic to your frustrations, however we are in service to doctors and can only do our best through that relationship. Good luck.

Great thanks. The color of the implant blends well now with the others (i dont know if I mentioned the details about my case on this post or just in my introduction),but the color is off. So I think colorwise if they can be done right, it should be fine. The addition of 4 teeth - to make the case 5-12 is due to spacing issues since my first ever veneer made in 2000 / 2001 was too big. And since 6 veneers is like asking to have a terrible smile (the matthew perry effect) I guess we gotta do them in 2s and do 8.

But thank you for replying. This is good to know. I just want to at least raise the concern to my dentist so he knows I'm aware and it's something he can discuss with the ceramist. I am in agreement with you that a ceramist should do whatever technique he is most comfortable with and as a dental patient I'm screwing myself if I'm forcing a ceramist to do something he can't.

and thanks.

 

[paulg100]

double post

 

[paulg100]

wow so many problems for such a simple solution.

1) you have a set of temps made which are easy to adjust in the mouth, then the dentist tweeks these until they are the exact shapes that you want. Then the ceramist just duplicates them in ceramic.

2) you pick a colour from the shade guide and the ceramist replicates it. It either matches the shade tab or it doesn't.

for a competent doc/tech team this is routine.

If all the planning wax-up/temp stages are being done and your constantly changing your mind then you will never find what your looking for.

If these planning stages are not being done then the process is not predictable. Then you need to find a team that knows what their doing.

 

[doug]

If you don't trust your dentist, change. If the lab is arrogant about their skill set, don't let them do the work. Look into the mirror at home and try to determine how much of the issue is you. When you get that settled, go find a dentist that works well with a local lab. That is going to be the only way to get this resolved. We can all recommend dentist and other labs, than us, that we think will do a good, no great job for you, but you have to live with the result, and if your standard is too high, unreasonable or just not attainable, then go back to your mirror.