Press to metal

[NicelyMKV]

Has anyone tried any press to metal systems? I have recently experimented with Avantes' ptm. I am having some problems with pressing using the Ivoclar EP 5000 pressing furnace. The Avante material pressing parameters are for time and temp type pressing furnaces where the EP5000 is based on pressure. If anyone has had some good experiences with ptm systems I would like to know which type and what you like and dislike about it. The reason I am interested in Avantes' system is the ability to layer the pressed material with your normal pfm ceramic. A few systems I researched were full contour stain only or a seperate overlay ceramic.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Al.]

Jason I have Ivoclars pom system.
Ive probably done 40 to 50 units with it. But I think it takes longer then the traditional build up and its more expensive. Now I only use it for crns under ptrs and implant cases that require the extra tissue coverage.
Ivoclars system is a stain system, they do not have a incisal porcelin to layer over so it is posteriors only.
If I could layer it I would use it for sure on more cases. Especially large anterior bridges and multiple unit anterior cases with porc. margins.

 

[JohnWilson]

Jason I have Ivoclars pom system.
Ive probably done 40 to 50 units with it. But I think it takes longer then the traditional build up and its more expensive. Now I only use it for crns under ptrs and implant cases that require the extra tissue coverage.
Ivoclars system is a stain system, they do not have a incisal porcelin to layer over so it is posteriors only.
If I could layer it I would use it for sure on more cases. Especially large anterior bridges and multiple unit anterior cases with porc. margins.

I love Ivoclar products, however I think they shot themselves in the foot "AGAIN" with the INLINE POM system. Why they did not design it so that the traditional Inline porcelain could be used to characterize the units is beyond me.

I have not invested in any P2M systems but I have experimented with many of them. It does allow a lab to utilize lower less expensive labor to maximize profit by the wax to contour technique.

 

[Al.]

I love Ivoclar products, however I think they shot themselves in the foot "AGAIN" with the INLINE POM system. Why they did not design it so that the traditional Inline porcelain could be used to characterize the units is beyond me.

I have not invested in any P2M systems but I have experimented with many of them. It does allow a lab to utilize lower less expensive labor to maximize profit by the wax to contour technique.

I was excited when Ivoclars pom first came out,I saved a couple of large anterior bridges to use it on. I was going to wax them full contour then cut back the incisal. When I got it I found tucked away in the manual that it is not compatable with Inline porc. only the opaque.

The shades come out light to get the incisal look when you stain the body, but staining dosent always look great, esp in bright light.
On pfms I dont need to ck the shades except for anteriors. It creates extra organizing and work to stain the pom crns.
I would like to have body shades that are right on for the layering tech for anteriors.
Also the porc is trans. compared to the traditional shoulder porc. so on the ones I did with shoulders you could see a line where the opaqued coping ends.
The posteriors I did looked really nice. I used occlusal forms.

 

[JohnWilson]

Also the porc is trans. compared to the traditional shoulder porc. so on the ones I did with shoulders you could see a line where the opaqued coping ends.
The posteriors I did looked really nice. I used occlusal forms.

We found the same thing with porc, margins till we made bigger cutbacks on the metal till the thickness of the ceramic would mask the opaque more. Of course the surface stain was most heavy at this point as well.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Thank you Al and JohnWilson. I too was going to try the Ivoclar POM system but luckily learned before hand that it was a stain only system. The system I am using now gives you the option to cut back and layer incisal only, body and incisal or stain only. I have also stained and layered similar to Empress or Emax. It depends alot on the strength of your wax dept. I know some areas have more ceramists available while others have more waxers etc. I have noticed that by the time you wax to the coping, sprue and invest, press and cool, then blast out the restoration you could have built the case and had it packed up and going out the door. It is nice to use on bridges, under partials and other similar situations. It is nice to wax up 3/4 and do any internal staining etc and not have to worry about any movement.

It is really nice to have people to discuss these things with.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[macombdentalceramics]

so the ingots used for pressing the ivoclar system are not estetic enough for anterior cases ?, and have no available porcelain for layering ? what if you need to add a contact or other adjustments after try in ? thank you , Rick

 

[rkm rdt]

so the ingots used for pressing the ivoclar system are not estetic enough for anterior cases ?, and have no available porcelain for layering ? what if you need to add a contact or other adjustments after try in ? thank you , Rick

I think that ship has sailed and sunk after hitting a zirconia iceberg.

 

[Sda36]

so the ingots used for pressing the ivoclar system are not estetic enough for anterior cases ?, and have no available porcelain for layering ? what if you need to add a contact or other adjustments after try in ? thank you , Rick

Sure you can modify, probably any low fusing ceramic if not too much. Go to Ivoclar for firing temps as it's been awhile since I used this product. Small additions to surface will be safe and not likely alter overall CTE. But please adhere to prescribed firing cycles from Ivoclar, likely they have a correction firing program, just make sure your procelain is in range° or not and accommodate as need be. Newer products like Miyo would allow you to do this perfectly with little effort. Recommend this product Highly for your future. It made mine!