Press eMax over ZR coping??

[biodentg]

Hello everyone.... I had a Dr. asking to press an eMax ingot over a ZR coping because he believes it will be strong as well as beautiful for his cases.. Does anyone have tried this?? Will these two be compatible?? Does it really make sense to do this? Please send me your comments.. thanks George.

 

[sixonice]

Hello everyone.... I had a Dr. asking to press an eMax ingot over a ZR coping because he believes it will be strong as well as beautiful for his cases.. Does anyone have tried this?? Will these two be compatible?? Does it really make sense to do this? Please send me your comments.. thanks George.

yes, there is an ingot in the e.max portfolio for specifically pressing over zirconia frameworks/copings. it is called zirpress and it comes in 3 translucencies depending on what your looking to do: MO (medium opacity-waxing and pressing the dentin core portion or used if your pressing porcelain shoulders and then full layering after divesting) LT (Light translucency- for pressing 80% of the restoration and then skimming with incisal) & HT (high translucency- for pressing full contour and no layering, these ingots work best in the bleach or A1 and B1 range). for more info check this link out: Ivoclar Vivadent - IPS e.max ZirPress

 

[paulg100]

Incase you are refering to pressing lithium disilicate over zirconia (most dentist still think that this is all that emax is rather than a group of materials) then no that cannot be done.

Check the cad sceen for that, Ivoclar are starting to release larger emax blocks and fusing agents. The cad splits the frame and overlay, you mill in the respective materials then fuse together in the furnace.

For some time the technique of pressing over zirconia and bonding to the frame with conventional cement has also been used.

Apparantly there are alot of barriers for directly pressing lithium disilicate over zirconia that are preventing that at the moment.

 

[stumpf]

Impressive!That's way i decided to change the cermamics from VITA to Ivoclar. I can you E.max to zirconium, Inline for metal ceramics.

I always want to know something what i didn't try before. Is there somebody who can give me advice how to press gingiva to framework?

 

[biodentg]

Thanks for your answers.. I'll be more specific.. press Lithium Disilicate over Zirconia LAVA. I will try and see what happens but I'll warn the Dr. about this. Great advise PaulG100.

 

[paulg100]

i wouldnt bother wasting the materials trying, if it worked we would know about it.

 

[sixonice]

Thanks for your answers.. I'll be more specific.. press Lithium Disilicate over Zirconia LAVA. I will try and see what happens but I'll warn the Dr. about this. Great advise PaulG100.

i wasnt sure if you were talking about lithium disilicate, but now everything is clear. as we all know. you certainly can place an e.max lithium disilicate over a zirconia abutment all day long, but looking into pressing lithium disilicate directly over zirconia is not possible due to CTE differentials.

 

[Labwa]

yeah definitely can not press regular emax onto lava. but you can with zirpress with zirliner for sure.

the problem you face is the fact you loose the monolithic strength which is the big attractiveness of a posterior full contour crown. its probably better to tell the dentist they would loose the strength advantage with two separate materials.

for anteriors i think you would save time and money building straight up with emax ceram onto the lava core.

maybe show them one of each and see what they think is the best without telling which one is which.

 

[paulg100]

press over zirconia has actually been fonud to be WEAKER then conventional layering on unsupported frames.

On frames with proper support, say 1.5mm max, then the difference is very small, probably not clinically significant, but conventional layering is still stronger.

check the NYU study commisioned by ivoclar for more info on this.

 

[24kt k9]

Hi all ---- It"s easy.zirline the frame wax and press with zirpress.stain & glaze simple fast & easy $ AKA Golden Dog

 

[dmonwaxa]

Hi all ---- It"s easy.zirline the frame wax and press with zirpress.stain & glaze simple fast & easy $ AKA Golden Dog

Hi 24kt, i think they're considering pressing regular emax (LD) over zr, not zirpress over zr.

 

[paulg100]

i wonder how much trouble the CTE differences are causing with this? they are very close which is why we are using the same ceramic for Emax LD and Zirconia??

Im guessing there may be other factors also.

 

[digitalcadcam]

press over zirconia has actually been fonud to be WEAKER then conventional layering on unsupported frames.

On frames with proper support, say 1.5mm max, then the difference is very small, probably not clinically significant, but conventional layering is still stronger.

check the NYU study commisioned by ivoclar for more info on this.

You have to read into that study with a grain of salt Paul!

 

[digitalcadcam]

So just to clear the air see below
Lithium Disilicate Over Zirconia BridgeMaxillary arch esthetic case with bridges
HT e.max press material
Hybrid Lithium Disilicate over Zirconia bridges
This 1 hour and 15 minute video integrates two bridges into an esthetic reconstructive case. The patient is being restored with e.max lithium disilicate restorations, etched and bonded to underlying dentition. All ceramic bridges were selected, zirconia as a substructure and lithium disilicate single restorations bonded over the zirconia substructure after they are completed to give the advantage of the 400 mpa strength of lithium disilicate material over the zirconia. This video covers all aspects of anterior esthetic treatment including the establishment of ovate pontic sites under the bridges. The technique is new and technically demanding, you can decide if it fits into your practice profile.

Want to see more! go to Dental Education On Demand

I trust Matt is getting what is required from this restoration!

I have seen it in person - there are a few new things coming down the pipe

 

[paulg100]

I read every study with a grain of salt, but what other data do we have?

Its supposed to be an independent study but are there ever any REAL independent and unbiased studies??

I doubt they would actually present false information, just have to watch how the data is manipulated.

 

[DMC]

I heard someone getting very excited about this years and years ago. Mike Gerrard was doing this and thats how he got so excited into buying the Roeders mills I think.

Lithium over Zirconia. Works fine. Two companys that hate each other is the problem.

 

[biodentg]

Update

Here is an update on this subject...

 

[stumpf]

YouTube - stumpfdent's Channel

I made a short movie about this!

 

[paulg100]

"Lithium over Zirconia. Works fine. Two companys that hate each other is the problem. "

yes if you cement the two materials together (which has no track record or clinical data yet! cant see why it should be a problem though)

pressing over it which i think was the original question is obviously a different matter and cant be done.

thanks for the links, ivoclars site still dosent have this stuff properly indexed yet.