Pfm metal

[dhdc]

Just looking for some advice on changing my pfm metal,I am currently using Ivoclars Aquarius XH,which is 82.8 Gold,and a nice yellow color.I am looking to change,possibly to Evolution lite,[40%]Gold,or lodestar [51.5]Gold.
Apart from the color and cost, would be interested to know the pro's and cons to making the change,Thanks Dean

 

[TheLabGuy]

Dean I use Evolution lite, it's silver in color but a great metal to work with. The only real downside I see is that you won't have that gold color you get with Aquarius, but on the upside...you'll save a pant load in money. Especially with the gold prices

 

[dhdc]

Thanks Rob,that is what i was hoping to hear,do you think i will lose much in bond to the porcelain?
Another question,how close should you get your CTEs,obviously as close as possible,but how far away is too far away?

 

[charles007]

Check out these 2 Argen alloys
Argedent Euro
40 Au 39 Pd 10 Ag CTE 14.1 14.4 (Density 12.8)

Argedent 52
52 Au 26.9 Pd 16 Ag CTE 14.2 14.4 (Density 14.2)

Consider the density also when changing alloys, assuming the cte works and silver or if low silver is ok.
Haven't used your alloy, I bet these alloys cast slightly thinner and better for long span bridges/ smaller connectors maybe ?
Less flaking off at the margins when over thinned out.
Probably very little difference in metal finishing, as far as grinding.

 

[AL1]

I have been using Argen`s Euro for a while and it works great. I use Creation mostly and a Little GCMC now and then.

 

[JohnWilson]

Who is really doing high gold PFG these days? I know we are doing less and less and I am very happy about this. I just pray that EMAX doesn't start failing or I am going to be n a world of hurt

 

[ed 3]

Who is really doing high gold PFG these days? I know we are doing less and less and I am very happy about this. I just pray that EMAX doesn't start failing or I am going to be n a world of hurt

I've been doing Emax full crowns non layered for more than 3 years. Have gotten just couple of cases with broken crowns so far due to a litle room [dentist wrong preps]. 3 years isn't a short period to have any big doubts about strength of monolithic full Emax crowns. I stopped praying a while ago.

 

[rlhhds]

Why use high noble white when a noble alloy will, in my opinion, give you the same esthetic result? Do your clients demand it? Have you educated them that the only difference between noble and high noble white alloy is price? We have guided our clients to Emax and full contour zirconia and they are loving those restorations.

 

[charles007]

Only use Noble because of price. Haven't used HN in many years, and only used NP for a few years back in the 80's.
rlhhds, you said you educated your doctors that the only difference in N and HN is price, sorry you are wrong.
Do a little research on Captek and higher gold content HN alloys and you will be a little more educated. Is it worth the difference ? If I could, I would use Captek to replace all pfms, and my pfms are becoming obsolete in my lab by the week like yours.
I'm educating my doctors on why use pfms with the benefits of monolithic emax, zir layered bridges, and full contoured zir that glazed and polished.

Its been a win win for me and my doctors. Now my doctors will stop seeing black margins later on down the road, hopefully no or much less layered porcelain chipping, considerably lower failures with monolithic crowns, plus a $ saving to the doctors.
The few doctors that ask for HN are probably the very best doctors that a lab could work for. I would educate them on monolithic materials, cad/cam designed crowns, Captek, and include reasons to not use HN cast alloys (mainly price) other than type 3 alloys.
There's a place for most materials we use in the lab, but.... "Times are Changing in the Modern Dental Lab", and its all about Education, keeping up with the best materials, and when not to use them.

My $.02

 

[rlhhds]

Not to get into a pissing match but I was not refering to Captek or HN Yellow. The inquiry was about changing from HN Yellow.
My clients that ask for HN are, to be honest, not my best clients but admit to me that they are old school and HN is what they have used forever or some say that they get a better reimburstment with HN.
I have been able to educate my clients regarding the benefits of Emax and FC zirconia along with the fact that I can save them money with either over any pfm and most of them jump all over it.

 

[labmanmike]

You will get a better bond with the Evolution lite than you did with your high gold yellow. That would not be an issue... good luck. I use evo lite and have no problems with it at all.

 

[zvac]

Look into W-3 from Ivoclar. Silver free.