Origin exocad and B&D Dental

[pjd cdt]

Last week I asked for any help on fabricating a hybrid abutment and a full zi crown at the same time. Help with settings during the design. I've tried this a couple of times but really could not get the fit that I wanted. So I called B&D and talked to Jim. He said that it was a powerful feature in exocad to be able to design restorations like that but because of there own milling strategies they were not able to do this with any success. Now let me say that I have been very happy with the abutments and zirconia crowns that I have been getting from b&d but I am a little disappointed that to do a combination case like this I have to have 2 scans and 2 shipments. That really adds 4 days to the case.

Pete



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[NicelyMKV]

I just designed one yesterday. Have the abutment sintered and about to mill crown out if wax. Ill show you results.

 

[shane williams]

I'm guessing that you are doing a posterior case, correct? Have you tried doing a screw-retained FCZ hybrid?

 

[pjd cdt]

Shane,
Yes I have done screw retained,works quite well but not in every case. What I'm really looking for is to be able to do split files that actually fit.

Pete


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[shane williams]

I've done it with 3shape, it's not all that great. If you have to adjust the margin on the abutment then your crown has to be re-done. The sprues also have to be taking off completely or else the crown doesn't fit.

 

[login9922]

I have the exocad from b&d I think the problem is in the milling. tolerances on first milling is within 20 microns. second milling would have to duplicate the 20 micron error and it would also have the 20 micron error. kinda like its 20 X 20 micron error At least thats what i understood.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

I've done it with 3shape, it's not all that great. If you have to adjust the margin on the abutment then your crown has to be re-done. The sprues also have to be taking off completely or else the crown doesn't fit.

This is always going to be the problem when you only have the option to mill with disks, On our Everest we have had the option to mill split files for over 5 years when using the Neoss implant modual, it lets us design the abutment and crown at the same time but it WILL NOT let us mill using a disk, we can only do it using 16/16 or 20/20 blanks. Pete

 

[NicelyMKV]

Got busy yesterday and haven't milled the posterior yet. I also found the areas where the sprues were attached to the abutment caused issues. Had to be pretty careful smoothing those down.

 

[Broadway your way]

What type of abutment? hybrid or Ti? also the strategies may only use the hole as the direction for milling so any undercuts from the CAM side will give an inaccurate fit. directional milling, lollipop milling or 5 axis milling may help! It is best to add cement gap from the CAD side rather then the CAM side for consistency! Also like mentioned above by MKV sprues can cause an issue. i you have the option place und the margin line!

 

[ChrisBWJ]

We've done a number of cases with concurrent design of a hybrid abutment and a substructure or full contour over the abutment. Both in Exocad and 3-Shape.

Position of the sprues on the abutment and 5-axis milling of the abutment are critical. We have special abutment milling sequences for our mills. Milling is not the ideal way to cut a hole!

 

[Ramon Flores]

Hi PJ, if you'd like to give a try, some of our customers have the Motion II system, we can split files as we also use the exocad platform. The users do a few abutment cases per month and have had good results. I can PM you the contacts if you'd like

Last week I asked for any help on fabricating a hybrid abutment and a full zi crown at the same time. Help with settings during the design. I've tried this a couple of times but really could not get the fit that I wanted. So I called B&D and talked to Jim. He said that it was a powerful feature in exocad to be able to design restorations like that but because of there own milling strategies they were not able to do this with any success. Now let me say that I have been very happy with the abutments and zirconia crowns that I have been getting from b&d but I am a little disappointed that to do a combination case like this I have to have 2 scans and 2 shipments. That really adds 4 days to the case.

Pete



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[Sevan P]

I have done the split file on 3Shape a hand full of time and out of those times maybe one or two when with out a issue. There are too many variable to the situation.

Where you place the sprues on the abutment, on the body itself or if you have room place them just under the margin on the inter proximal areas. Is the abutment angled? If so then that is a huge issue if your mill is not able to mill out the undercuts on the abutment. Die spacer and drill comp also play a factor. Split file has a better chance of working out when you have a straight abutment with a good amount of room under the abutments margins for sprueing and good clearance for crown as well. I have gotten 100% better results with single scanning.

If you can get your crown to fit about 90-95% on the abutment in the green stage then you can simply adjust the abutment to fit the crown later and get away with it. Another thing is that if the margins are not place far down enough you will end up having to rescan the crown anyways.

Sevan

 

[rkm rdt]

Yet for an additional 4 days ( of outsourceing) you can receive an accurate coping or crown to fit your cad abutment perfectly if you do it the other way.

 

[pjd cdt]

Yet for an additional 4 days ( of outsourceing) you can receive an accurate coping or crown to fit your cad abutment perfectly if you do it the other way.

Yes , That's my point. Time has a price.

Pete


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