new generation mills

[sidesh0wb0b]

there are some new mills hitting the market and I wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on them.

primarily puck changers (yes they have been around a bit, but they are getting better),and wet milling too. and then of course there are the giants that mill Ti and such. we have other threads about specific mills, i just want a general dialogue. probably can toss in some rapid sintering as well. or crystallization for all ceramic milling too!

support/service/training as always takes a HUGE role after purchase so that wont change. its a must and really sets resellers apart, but not mills. generally most function as needed but which stand out as the leaders?

-new(er) mills
-wet/dry mills
-sintering/crystallization furnaces
-support/service/training
-odds and ends?

 

[Car 54]

I'm hoping to retire with the newer Dry mill I have. I'm not as big of a lab as some of you all, so I really want this buying of $12,000. sinter ovens, 38,000. (Dry Mill) and scanner cash outlay to be over. This business these days is not for the faint of heart, unless you can outsource most of it.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I'm hoping to retire with the newer Dry mill I have. I'm not as big of a lab as some of you all, so I really want this buying of $12,000. sinter ovens, 38,000. (Dry Mill) and scanner cash outlay to be over. This business these days is not for the faint of heart, unless you can outsource most of it.

you aren't kidding there! haha.
how recently was your mill purchase? and if youre up for sharing, what did you choose?

my mill is reaching toward 7yr old and its working great, however it might be great for a reliable backup should the 'right' mill come along

 

[Affinity]

I have an S2 with a puck changer, I thought it would be very useful, but it basically is another robot that can also malfunction and have issues, even more so than the mill because of all the moving parts. It is nice to have pucks in a carrier so you dont have to screw in every puck every time, you can load 10 up, then just pop them in.

There arent many new mills with 6mm tooling for milling Ti pre-forms, just because they say it can mill Ti doesnt mean it will last long doing it. Switching from wet to dry is a real pain, better to have 2 dedicated, oily zirconia dust is like glue. Ive had 6 mills and so far the motion was the best engineered, never really a problem, compact and great results. My s2 cracks every screw retained crown, even after calibration and new tools.
Imes makes a great machine also.. If I were to buy new and money wasnt an issue it would be a tossup between a 350 pro with changer, or versamill 500L

 

[Car 54]

Ivoclar Dry Mill, which is a VHF K5 with the clamp-style disk holder. I've had it for about a year. It's a beast, all metal just like the Mini Mill VHF K4. I also love the quick and easy-to-use Programill CAM/CNC. Support has been very good. Doesn't have an ionizer though, and is only for PMMA, zirconia, wax, and their Ivotion dentures.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I have an S2 with a puck changer, I thought it would be very useful, but it basically is another robot that can also malfunction and have issues, even more so than the mill because of all the moving parts. It is nice to have pucks in a carrier so you dont have to screw in every puck every time, you can load 10 up, then just pop them in.

There arent many new mills with 6mm tooling for milling Ti pre-forms, just because they say it can mill Ti doesnt mean it will last long doing it. Switching from wet to dry is a real pain, better to have 2 dedicated, oily zirconia dust is like glue. Ive had 6 mills and so far the motion was the best engineered, never really a problem, compact and great results. My s2 cracks every screw retained crown, even after calibration and new tools.
Imes makes a great machine also.. If I were to buy new and money wasnt an issue it would be a tossup between a 350 pro with changer, or versamill 500L

ever screw retained is cracking? ouch man! that is BRUTAL!
you are correct, that is just another moving part that can cause headaches (puck changer). good thought man.

the newer mills with 4mm tools for PMMA and 6mm for Ti are useful additions. while i like the thought of milling titanium, its not likely i will add that to the lab any time soon. getting better results from PMMA milling would be good, and having the option of milling a blue block of emax or something is a neat product addition too.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

just because they say it can mill Ti doesnt mean it will last long doing it.

why do you think you need a loader? do you really have enough volume to have the mill in operation 24/7?

 

[Car 54]

ever screw retained is cracking? ouch man! that is BRUTAL!
you are correct, that is just another moving part that can cause headaches (puck changer). good thought man.

the newer mills with 4mm tools for PMMA and 6mm for Ti are useful additions. while i like the thought of milling titanium, its not likely i will add that to the lab any time soon. getting better results from PMMA milling would be good, and having the option of milling a blue block of emax or something is a neat product addition too.

Agree with the blue block milling. I was originally looking at a PM3 for that ability, but the cfm needs were pretty high, and I didn't want to also have to shell out more money for a bigger compressor that I didn't have room for, so I went with the Dry. I figured when my EP600 dies, I can get blue block milled from Argen if needed.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

We bought a PM7 three years or so ago and have never regretted it.

 

[sndmn2]

I'll hopefully retire in a couple years. My wife says if I buy one more thing she will cut my nuts off.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

I'll hopefully retire in a couple years. My wife says if I buy one more thing she will cut my nuts off.

I'd buy a metal cup and then call her bluff!

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

why do you think you need a loader? do you really have enough volume to have the mill in operation 24/7?

i personally enjoy the mill sitting relatively quiet during the working day and running all night when i dont have to listen to it lol

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

Agree with the blue block milling. I was originally looking at a PM3 for that ability, but the cfm needs were pretty high, and I didn't want to also have to shell out more money for a bigger compressor that I didn't have room for, so I went with the Dry. I figured when my EP600 dies, I can get blue block milled from Argen if needed.

i dont know anyone with an ivoclar mill so i sadly have no basis for their end results. (hopefully someone will speak up! haha)
i am going to be upgrading our compressed air regardless, so there will be an abundance of cfm that can be utilize by whatever we throw at it. ive had some blue blocks milled in the past from argen, and i wont turn this into a kick-argen thread, i wasnt impressed.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

We bought a PM7 three years or so ago and have never regretted it.

oh hey! thats what i was hoping to hear.
can you give us pros/cons?

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I'll hopefully retire in a couple years. My wife says if I buy one more thing she will cut my nuts off.

i hope we all willingly retire in a couple years! until then, its full steam ahead.

 

[Affinity]

why do you think you need a loader? do you really have enough volume to have the mill in operation 24/7?

Its much faster to have 8 different pucks on deck, because I dont want to have to change pucks everytime one ends. It doesnt have to be on 24/7 to continuously mill out work until they are all complete. And you can take other pucks out while its still working. Never said I needed a loader though, It was a good deal, the loader doesnt even work properly. VHF cant help.

 

[ztech]

I don't think the zirconia production is going to advance that much in the next 10 years, what will advance is the zirconia itself. Faster sintering, better color and more lifelike appearance. That being said, the one area that will definitely advance rapidly now and into the future is 3d printing. Within 5 years we will be doing as many printed crowns as we do zirconia now. Although they have "permanent" printed material now, no one I know thinks it is there....yet. When the material science gets it figured out, it will dominate quickly after that.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

I don't think the zirconia production is going to advance that much in the next 10 years, what will advance is the zirconia itself. Faster sintering, better color and more lifelike appearance. That being said, the one area that will definitely advance rapidly now and into the future is 3d printing. Within 5 years we will be doing as many printed crowns as we do zirconia now. Although they have "permanent" printed material now, no one I know thinks it is there....yet. When the material science gets it figured out, it will dominate quickly after that.

I have had the same thought for the past 5 years....and while printing has gotten better the materials still arent there yet. within 5years is a stiff order IMHO. at some point i would hope printing would make some significant leaps forward, but until i see materials start bridging that gap i cant feel good about putting a 5 year time stamp on it.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

oh hey! thats what i was hoping to hear.
can you give us pros/cons?

The only con is the price, but the support and the mill have been totally worth the cost. I think its only gone done once since we bought it. It that case, we were able to shift all our zirconia to Core3D and they milled our all crowns for free while the mill was being serviced. We don't mill wet, but you can with this mill. We just mill zirconia, wax, and pmma occasionally.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

The only con is the price, but the support and the mill have been totally worth the cost. I think its only gone done once since we bought it. It that case, we were able to shift all our zirconia to Core3D and they milled our all crowns for free while the mill was being serviced. We don't mill wet, but you can with this mill. We just mill zirconia, wax, and pmma occasionally.

thats a pricey investment for just dry milling pmma, zirc, and wax. do you mill for dentures too?