milling titanium

[harmonylab]

we're about to buy a second mill for zirconia, and start using the current Origin 5000 for milling titanium.

Does anyone have any experience they could share about milling titanium?

The plan is to mill implant bars and copings, and any insights and tips would be really appreciated.

 

[Drizzt]

It is so easy to mill it . We have been milling abutments , telescops and frameworks for long term temps . Much easier than CrCo , awesome fit . You will have no trouble with the simple stuff . I have milled also a couple of bars with good results .I also have a Yenadent D 40 custom made . Are you going to fuse porcelain on it ? What will tyur second mill be ?

 

[BobCDT]

I don't think you'll get precision fitting bars. Copings should fit well. Plan on some challenges putting ceramics on Titanium. Use grade 2 for copings that you plan on layering. Grade 5 for bars.
Good luck, your going to need it.

 

[Drizzt]

I agree that bars can be very very tricky . I am not doing much , I have only milled 2-3 , the results were good , not fantastic though . I think this comes natural . If bars were that easy to mill with these kind of mills , nobody would spend 300 k-millions for scanning and milling equipment .

 

[DMC]

Each little tool will flex a different amount when cutting Ti.

You may think you will have perfect size holes and hexs, but you will not.

You will need to adjust for many things in the CAM. It is not easy for perfect interfaces.

Just my opinion. You will need new CAM software and a BIG box of various tool shapes and geometrys.

 

[BobCDT]

Hey Scott,
We have been working on bars, I am in total agreement. This will be a much more significant challenge than many may think. There are so many variables.
Quality of scan coping
Quality of scan and scanner
CAM stratergy
Tools
Mill accuracy
Lots of places where error can stem from. A little here a little there and you end up with a bar that doesn't fit.

 

[DMC]

It took a lot of time and money playing to get successful bars.

Now we are rocking and rolling. Got the hard part behind us. NOT easy.

Almost Three years of playing with SUM3d, and then mucho time playing with cutting Ti in general.

Then, months and months of playing with strategys/templates for various bar designs and interfaces....on and on and on it seemed!

It was crazy learning experience. The hardest thing I have ever done in Dental Technology to date.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

I don't think you'll get precision fitting bars. Copings should fit well. Plan on some challenges putting ceramics on Titanium. Use grade 2 for copings that you plan on layering. Grade 5 for bars.
Good luck, your going to need it.

I don't know why people fight Ti so much, its a very user friendly material. I really have lost count of the number of units that the lab has done and I have not had one fail in about 3 years (so it's one of our best products). Its now lab policy to make any bridge that comes in that is over three units in Ti because we know the thing is going to fit like a dream. And layering is child's play. I am with you on grade2 for copings and bridges, we have never used grade5 but I know it is stronger so one school of thought is that it should be used for bridges/bars but it will also give off a greater oxide. We had to wax up all our bars in the past and copy scan and mill plus we bonded/laser welded all our links into place so really all our bars were just big bridges ( we can do it down to fixture level but god it is soooooo slow and painful, but still got some fantastic results.

The pics shown are all old cases but all titanium, and the bars are milled to fixture level, the one in situ is a screw retained implant UR1. Many thanks Pete

 

[martintay]

Nice stuff Pete. Don`t want to change the subject- but do you mill your own Zr.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Nice stuff Pete. Don`t want to change the subject- but do you mill your own Zr.

Thanks pal. Yeh we mill Zr, I layer that with GC as well, it's nice stuff. Hows the weather down your neck of the woods, cracking flags by us today.

 

[martintay]

Warm and sunny at last ! - been gardening all day and i`m nacked .

 

[harmonylab]

It is so easy to mill it . We have been milling abutments , telescops and frameworks for long term temps . Much easier than CrCo , awesome fit . You will have no trouble with the simple stuff . I have milled also a couple of bars with good results .I also have a Yenadent D 40 custom made . Are you going to fuse porcelain on it ? What will tyur second mill be ?

wow... lots of great info. I guess I'll have to commit to some in depth testing and research before doing bars.

We do plan to fuse porcelain on it. what's the difference between type 2 and 5? I didn't even realize there were different types of titanium.

Not decided on second mill yet, but looking seriously at Roland DWX-50. Kinda concerned, since a local lab was returning our cases with massive chipping problems. We've had to thicken the margins by 0.5mm to avoid chipping, but I think it may be more due to their milling strategy or burs, considering all the glowing reviews around here. I'll have to try another milling centre to compare I guess.

 

[BobCDT]

Grade 2 titanium is medical grade pure titanium. Stronger than grade 1 weaker than grade 3. Grade 5 is actually an alloy 6al-4v. The alloy is much stronger than the pure. But, the alloy does not fire well in a porcelain oven. Massive oxide layer. You really can't put porcelain on it. Use grade 5 for bars. Most implants and related titanium components are made from grade 5.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Good bit of info Bob, I keep forgetting that this is very new to some people. Grade 2 (medical grade) is the norm for porcelain application and that's what we use all the time, never met anyone trying to use grade 1 or grade 3. but there are a few milling centres out there that try to push grade 4 and 5 onto labs, for bridges saying its better for strength purposes but like you said its a pig to get porcelain to bond because of the heavy oxide. So if you want to get a good result with porcelain then stick to the grade 2 stuff.

 

[primus]

 

[primus]

 

[harmonylab]

where can I get grade 2 titanium disks? It looks like B&D only has grade 5... and grade 23 titanium. Apparently they get good results with those, but I think I'd like to try out all the options.

 

[DevonR]

where can I get grade 2 titanium disks? It looks like B&D only has grade 5... and grade 23 titanium. Apparently they get good results with those, but I think I'd like to try out all the options.

KaVO has grade 2

 

[trianglej]

Axsys, an advertiser here, can supply you with disks. They have a little banner that runs at the top of the page.

 

[Drizzt]

where can I get grade 2 titanium disks? It looks like B&D only has grade 5... and grade 23 titanium. Apparently they get good results with those, but I think I'd like to try out all the options.

Scheftner has grade 2 Ti . Contact the Germans .