lumineers

[amer84]

hey
I need more information about lumineers
can we make it by zirconia ??
I have CAD/CAm system and the doctors are asking me about it!

 

[CatamountRob]

I'm not sure that it would work well with zirconia, as it can't be etched and bonded.

 

[amer84]

I'm not sure that it would work well with zirconia, as it can't be etched and bonded.

is this the only problem in zirconia lumineers ??

 

[Dentaleng]

Milling them would be a problem as they are too thin. I don't think anyone is doing them successfully. Best option is to mill in wax and press emax.

 

[BobCDT]

Hi, Lumineers are no prep veneers that are waxed, pressed and etched for bonding. Forget about using zirconia as it can not be etched somthey will likely fall out. Nor, is it esthetic enough for this purpose.
I believe what you dentist is asking; Can you provide a no prep veneer that is a bout 0.3mm thick and must be etched by you so he can bond it? You can use either pressed or feldspathic porcelain. Pressed ceramics will be easier, stronger and have superior fit unless you have a lot of experience with feldspathic veneers the press will also look better. I would do tis with e.max.

 

[BobCDT]

Couple of additional thoughts, if you decide to move forward and do this case make sure you get a good fee. No prep veneers are difficult because of the thinness requirements and all the margins are feature edge. So, it's likly you will need to do a few of them a couple of times due to breakage or margin chipping. When we do this we press two sets from the get go. FYI, our fee is $282 a unit.

 

[amer84]

Hi, Lumineers are no prep veneers that are waxed, pressed and etched for bonding. Forget about using zirconia as it can not be etched somthey will likely fall out. Nor, is it esthetic enough for this purpose.
I believe what you dentist is asking; Can you provide a no prep veneer that is a bout 0.3mm thick and must be etched by you so he can bond it? You can use either pressed or feldspathic porcelain. Pressed ceramics will be easier, stronger and have superior fit unless you have a lot of experience with feldspathic veneers the press will also look better. I would do tis with e.max.

can they pressed up to 0.2 mm thickness ??

 

[BobCDT]

No way, you will be pulling your hair out trying to press and devest .2mm veneers. if you read the Ivoclar instructions on all of their pressed materials minimum thickness is 0.8mm for pressing. However, lithium disilicat does fill a mold more easily than other press materials. I don't think we press anything less than 0.5mm. This is part of the reason you need to get a good fee. After pressing there is considerable finishing to thin the veneers and get the shape correct. In addition, the majority of patients are not good candidates for no prep veneers as this will result in over contoured final results.
Lumineers, the company, has been great with marketing this very simple proceedure to both dentist and the public. The dentists are sold on just taking an impression and the patiens are sold on not having there teeth ground down. Dentist go to a Lumineer weekend programs and pay big bucks up front for future lab work produced by Lumineer. You've got to love the business model. But, in reality, it's not a good Rx plan for most.
Anyone else have experience pressing very thin veneers?

 

[CatamountRob]

Bob,
0.3 mm veneers are no problem to press and de-vest. 0.2 is thinner than the allowed indications, but not because it would be difficult to make them, just not strong enough. 0.3 mm thin veneers are an allowed indication from Ivoclar.

 

[BobCDT]

My bad. Thanks for the info. This is what makes Me love this site.

 

[user name]

Thin veneers, even no-prep veneers, 'can' be done, but they sure take a gentle touch. It never ceases to amaze me when I get a call from an office to come look at a patient that wants to look hollywood, but they present with brown, miss aligned teeth, and they were thinking instead of ortho and asking what would be the best coarse of action, they want and EXPECT instant gratification. (grrrr). Sometimes I think I should just pull a magic wand out of my camera case....except I know some patients would think its real.

 

[paulg100]

im pressing emax at .2 all the the time, even down to .1. It starts getting hit and miss at .1 so you need to wax multiple units if your going that thin.

If your trying to replicate lumineers then you might struggle to make feldspathics look crappy enough.
Best go with fc stain and glaze emax. That should get you results that look closer to lumineers, ie naff.

 

[amer84]

can we use Glass ceramics ?? such as Vita blocs MarkII or Triluxe forte??

 

[grantoz]

you can do veneers in zirconia but you must pick your fights.i have had some very good results with zi veneers if you are extending an incisal edge a long way or you have discoloured tooth use z prime and a lot of dr education because they will find a way not follow the instruction.other times I will just press in emax or use impress 1 style pellets and go from there.