Lava Ultimate

[rlhhds]

Who's using it and what do you think.

 

[PCDL]

I just did an Ultimate inlay for my own tooth, #18. I figure that I should test the material a bit before I decide to sell it, right??

I have been having trouble on how to position the restoration with my clients, and many are asking me "Why do that when I can do eMax or FC ZR?" Right now, I dont have a good answer for that. Time will tell, and in the future, I would assume a multishade block will be coming down the road. Id love the material in a large puck to do long term temps with.

 

[REJ]

We are using it, getting quite a bit of positive feedback.

 

[rkm rdt]

Just attended a course last night.I mentioned to the Lecturer about LU and he told me of a failure/fracture he had on a molar.It was his third LU.

He then began his speach warning everyone there about trying this material and questioned 3M's logic and r&d on this material.

I expected some uncertainty about this material in comparison to other composites but I didn't expect this much doubt.

I think 3M has a challenge on their hands and that's too bad.I really like the material but I'm not the one placeing them .

They need some big name guru to come on board with this material fast or I'm afraid it's dead in the water.

I just wish I had waited another day before sending out flyers on this material.

 

[REJ]

We have some gurus that really like it. I will try to get some info.

 

[Adigitalsmile]

In the eyes of a ceramist its still a temp crown. Cannot put into an oven and any adjustment made to it occlusion and contact has to use composite to do so.

 

[paulg100]

"Just attended a course last night.I mentioned to the Lecturer about LU and he told me of a failure/fracture he had on a molar.It was his third LU."

Well i mentioned this a while back but docs are using this material as a bulk enamel replacement.. Its composite... it flexes!

lots of flex with cement retained restorations is not good.

I dont have any data to back this up at the minute, its more that it just dosent seem logical to me.

from what ive heard so far, it has its own set of challenges and therefore can be technique sensitive. Works fine if you know what your doing with it, gonna get problems if you dont. But whats new.

Aesthetics wise it looks like a temp, but thats not what this material is really about.

 

[rkm rdt]

I don't know who to believe any more.

 

[PCDL]

In the eyes of a ceramist its still a temp crown. Cannot put into an oven and any adjustment made to it occlusion and contact has to use composite to do so.

Agreed to a point... If you have designed it well, you shouldn't be adjusting (I overbuild my contacts and finish them in). You can add the light cure Sinfony stains to the crowns, but Im not sure of the longevity of those either? I do think the material is great as a long term temp though...

Hey, is that Fizzgig from the Dark Crystal in your avatar?? Freakin Sweet.

 

[Adigitalsmile]

Yes its Fizzgig from Dark Crystal. I agree with you on the design part occlusion and contacts . But you will always have that one case come back from a doctor for an adjustment that needs a contact added to it.

 

[rkm rdt]

Yes its Fizzgig from Dark Crystal. I agree with you on the design part occlusion and contacts . But you will always have that one case come back from a doctor for an adjustment that needs a contact added to it.

That's the whole point of nano-ceramic.Modifications can be made chairside.

Now for some reason this is a problem?

What gets me is that when a major company screws up with a product,ie Ivoclars Targis Vectris, they seem to be able to bounce back with a new product and continue on.

When a lab screws up once and it's over.

 

[BobCDT]

"Just attended a course last night.I mentioned to the Lecturer about LU and he told me of a failure/fracture he had on a molar.It was his third LU."

Well i mentioned this a while back but docs are using this material as a bulk enamel replacement.. Its composite... it flexes!

lots of flex with cement retained restorations is not good..

If you hop over to Dental Town you can read loads of reports that LU crowns falling out after final cementation. Do we really need another monochromatic posterior material? One that has an issue with cement seal failure? I have a small inventory of LU and will fabricate if prescribed. So far, no one is asking for it.

 

[bonded]

Yeah thats whey any new material & machine comes up to the market i wait for some feedback from dentist and lab.

 

[paulg100]

maybe its less of an issue on implants where the abutment is very rigid. I can also see the valid benefit of using a flexible material here due to the lack of periodentium.

on a natural abutment though where you've removed all the rigid enamel, you end up with soft flexible dentine, with a soft flexible crown. Thats bio mechanics stright out the window there. end result is a weaker tooth with no rigid support (eg enamel, emax),and alot of flex causing the seal to fail?

are the cement failures still happening on implant abutments or is the extra regidity enough to off set the issue? is it an issue of cement choice, maybe a hybrid resin is less of an issue?? lots of unanswered questions.

Last time i looked i couldnt find a figure for the elastic modulus of this material? if its any where near composite (around 20gpa),its miles away from enamel.

cant be bothered to read all the research on this material as i have no interest in offering it, and no clients interested in prescribing it, so i wont bash it head on.

Maybe someone that has can add to this..

 

[rkm rdt]

So much for that teeth in an hour idea.

Oh well let's look on the bright side. One less material that will replace us techs...

 

[CatamountRob]

So much for that teeth in an hour idea.

it's perfect for "teeth in an hour".

.....just shouldn't expect it to last much longer than that.

 

[hammerhead]

maybe its less of an issue on implants where the abutment is very rigid. I can also see the valid benefit of using a flexible material here due to the lack of periodentium.

on a natural abutment though where you've removed all the rigid enamel, you end up with soft flexible dentine, with a soft flexible crown. Thats bio mechanics stright out the window there. end result is a weaker tooth with no rigid support (eg enamel, emax),and alot of flex causing the seal to fail?

are the cement failures still happening on implant abutments or is the extra regidity enough to off set the issue? is it an issue of cement choice, maybe a hybrid resin is less of an issue?? lots of unanswered questions.

Last time i looked i couldnt find a figure for the elastic modulus of this material? if its any where near composite (around 20gpa),its miles away from enamel.

cant be bothered to read all the research on this material as i have no interest in offering it, and no clients interested in prescribing it, so i wont bash it head on.

Maybe someone that has can add to this..

Yup all of u are right imo but this is what we are seeing after 300 units

U have to have some composite background

Cant violate the typical parameters

Drs have to use the three hand technique to seat effectively

So far
we have found the ht block is too much for all cases,Drs hate it. LT is plenty translucent

done plenty of teeth in a day with great results so far

Getting ready to completley jump from the bridge and do a custom abutment ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Alistar]

Got some feed back from a doc that did a couple of these.

2 fell out after a day and the others he had them remade twice because of the shade.

Not pleased to say the least.

We were hoping to do some of these for the "less picky docs". Thinking no now, because if this pro doc can't get them to stay in...how are the lessers going to?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[rkm rdt]

I still think they would make great custom denture teeth though.

 

[Polarmolar]

I'm kind of curious how they cemented them? Did they use the scotch bond and Rocotec? I went to a course last month and it was stressed highly that if you don't use the proper procedures you will have some serious issues.