HO0 emax

[aidihra]

I'm using the HO0 ingot for the first time and the value was way too high. My Rep told me to layer with Bleach 4 dentin and Bleach incisal. That ain't right. I'm supposed to match 2.1 and 2.2 to 1M1 3D Vitapan. Any tips to match this shade? Should I try layering B1 dentin?

 

[PDC]

You didn't give any info on the stump shade...you got to have something to go by in order to determine what pellet to use. It also depends on the thickness of the crown or veneer. I wouldn't use an HO pellet unless I was trying to cover a metal post, etc. Below is a photo of a case I'm doing using an MOO pellet. Patient wants OM3 shade. Patient has an ND 8 stump shade resulting from tetracycline stains. (I always get the good ones). Anyway, I stained first and then layered. I left the patients left side untouched at this point so you could see the contrast in value and chroma.

 

[aidihra]

The stump shade is ND 9. My ivoclar Rep told me to get the HO0 and that's what I ordered. I pressed and layered, but didn't like the results. I trimmed off the layered porcelain and am ready to try again. Maybe I'll try staining before I layer.

 

[Bumfrey]

With HO0, MO1,2,3,4 i ALWAYS stain before layering. I don't usually stain before layering onto HT or LT depending on case. Your re was right, but should have advised on how to use the HO0 pellet as its a pain to use.

 

[mcfly]

Use l opaque dentine as a base after staining the core and the build up as per nomal if enough space .You need adequate space if you want to use a HO ingot !

 

[Patrick Coon]

Agreed, when lusing an opacified ingot (MO or HO) I always stain the core to just slightly lighter and brighter to my final shade. Then I can layer as I wish to match the needed shade. In your case, here is what I would have done:

Pressed my HO-0 substructure
Stained the subrtucture to about a 0.5M0.5 (slightly higher value and slighlty less chroma)
Layered B-1 Dentine or Deep Dentin (depending on my thicknesses - Less thickness dictates the use of Deep Dentin which is higher in chroma)
Fired that to ensure I had the correct Final Dentin shade (if necessary stained again to match dentin half of shade tab)
Then, and only then would I layer my Transpa Incisal and/or Opal Effect 1 & 2 to reach my final contours and shade.

Hope this helps.

 

[GarryB]

Agreed, when lusing an opacified ingot (MO or HO) I always stain the core to just slightly lighter and brighter to my final shade. Then I can layer as I wish to match the needed shade. In your case, here is what I would have done:

Pressed my HO-0 substructure
Stained the subrtucture to about a 0.5M0.5 (slightly higher value and slighlty less chroma)
Layered B-1 Dentine or Deep Dentin (depending on my thicknesses - Less thickness dictates the use of Deep Dentin which is higher in chroma)
Fired that to ensure I had the correct Final Dentin shade (if necessary stained again to match dentin half of shade tab)
Then, and only then would I layer my Transpa Incisal and/or Opal Effect 1 & 2 to reach my final contours and shade.

Hope this helps.

Patrick, Can you clarfy for me what you would use to stain lighter and the reason for doing this?

I have also got a case in at the moment (shade A1 using an MO ingot) that I am having trouble with.

Many thanks

 

[Patrick Coon]

Sorry for the confusion.

I wouldn't lighten the coping, just darken it to the point where it is a little less chromatic than the Dentin Shade of a 1M1. I would probably use the e.max Ceram Shade Paste 1 to accomplish this, but may have to adjust that color a little by adding some e.max Ceram essence powders to the shade paste, or even custom mix some Essences to achieve what I was trying to accomplish.

As for the A1 with an MO ingot, that becomes a lot simpler. If available, just use an M0-1 ingot which would be appropriate for the A1 shade, and layer with the A1 Dentin and TI-1 and Opal Effects as apropriate.

 

[GarryB]

M

Sorry for the confusion.

I wouldn't lighten the coping, just darken it to the point where it is a little less chromatic than the Dentin Shade of a 1M1. I would probably use the e.max Ceram Shade Paste 1 to accomplish this, but may have to adjust that color a little by adding some e.max Ceram essence powders to the shade paste, or even custom mix some Essences to achieve what I was trying to accomplish.

As for the A1 with an MO ingot, that becomes a lot simpler. If available, just use an M0-1 ingot which would be appropriate for the A1 shade, and layer with the A1 Dentin and TI-1 and Opal Effects as apropriate.

Many thanks for that Patrick, I am in the early stages of using emax and every bit of information helps.
It seems the combination of ingot choice and layering porcelain is infinate and much of getting it right is experience.

 

[Patrick Coon]

Ingot choice, natural die shade, thickness of the restoration, all effect the final shade greatly in any translucent material.
Advice always helps, but doesn't replace experience.