Emax ceram, are you familiar with this technique?

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

So you pressed some full contour emax restorations...
The plan is to layer them...
But before you layer the emax ceram onto the emax...
You stain AND you "GLAZE" the cut back rostorations BEFORE you stack the emax ceram, and then when your finished you GLAZE again???
Why was this technician telling me he glazes before the add on of ceram because if you dont you get two different shimmers or textures of glaze?
Have you heard of this?

 

[pjd cdt]

Glaze can be used as a wash bake
Page 40 emax press ifu

Pete


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

But is a washbake neccesary? And unless your looking for that grey, an extra bake can increase the value. So why wash bake?

 

[pjd cdt]

But is a washbake neccesary? And unless your looking for that grey, an extra bake can increase the value. So why wash bake?

Necessary? That's up to you, but Ivoclar thinks it is.

Pete


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Im all for a washbake on alloys and zirc, but if Im not looking to increase the value, and usually im not, ill avoiid any extra firing...
But I dont think this tech was talking about doing this for a wash bake, he explained that there is a difference between the glazed surfaces of the emax and the ceram on the final product, and that hasnt been my experience. So hes not glazing just the layered incisal, but the entire thing, to finish. Then layering...
Thx pete

 

[RileyS]

Generally going by the book is safest...for who is guilty when things go wrong. Most companies spend 100's of thousands if not millions on R&D to find the most efficient effective ways to use their product.
That being said...layered Bruxzir?

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

weve havent had any issues, not wash firing, but we'll give it a try for peace of mind, thx DLN

 

[user name]

Just so we're using clear terms...more gray means lower value. Youre not going to increase the value (reduce gray) with or without any number of firings. The pressed unit should be either covered with a layer of glaze or a thin layer of ceram as a wash bake to improve bond of the ceram build. If you arent going to do a full coverage build, say just the incisal, then obviously you wouldnt do a wash with ceram on the rest of the crown. You would still need a layer of glaze though, because you likely dont get a good glaze in just one coat, and after your ceram work is done, you wont want to run two glaze cycles on it. Best technique: apply a layer of flouro glaze, sprinkle some ceram powder on it with a dry brush. blow off the excess and fire as a wash. complete the build and finish with one glaze firing.

 

[martintay]

Im all for a washbake on alloys and zirc, but if Im not looking to increase the value, and usually im not, ill avoiid any extra firing...
But I dont think this tech was talking about doing this for a wash bake, he explained that there is a difference between the glazed surfaces of the emax and the ceram on the final product, and that hasnt been my experience. So hes not glazing just the layered incisal, but the entire thing, to finish. Then layering...
Thx pete

Interesting - sounds like he is compensating for the difference in trying to glaze a crown that is part "press" and part "ceram" ? Never tried that but can see where he is coming from .

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Thx for the replies, we are going to start wash firing with a little salt and pepper of ceram ontop of the cut back areas...
again thx.

 

[martintay]

Thx for the replies, we are going to start wash firing with a little salt and pepper of ceram ontop of the cut back areas...
again thx.

I think he`s coating the whole crown with glaze at the start so that it all glazes the "same" with one glaze at the end - the non layered press is more difficult too glaze than ceram. I think he knows what he`s doing IMO.

 

[RileyS]

I like how "he" is being discussed like he is in a police interrogation room

 

[martintay]

I like how "he" is being discussed like he is in a police interrogation room

HIS techniques are being interrogated

 

[Ivan]

You glaze the part of the crown that is not going to be covered with the Emax Ceram. So you can fire it at the higher temperature like a stained and glazed emax. Once the ceram is on you have to lower the temperature. Matt Roberts does this in one of his online courses I took.

 

[Labwa]

I find the glaze goes pretty horrible after its been baked 4+ times. I glaze at the same time as the regular porcelain and hand polish both materials up so they are evenly lustered.

 

[Tayebdental]

I find the glaze goes pretty horrible after its been baked 4+ times. I glaze at the same time as the regular porcelain and hand polish both materials up so they are evenly lustered.

Exactly what I do, polish emax with fine silicon rubber wheel and a buff of with diamond paste polish, it gives the crown a beautiful luster!! The company's instruction is followed to the letter. That's why anybody not supposed to put a disposable hot cup of coffee between legs and drive!!, you now the results.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

You glaze the part of the crown that is not going to be covered with the Emax Ceram. So you can fire it at the higher temperature like a stained and glazed emax. Once the ceram is on you have to lower the temperature. Matt Roberts does this in one of his online courses I took.

We have a programat 5000 and its pre preprogramed wash firing for emax press is he same temp as the ceram firings, this is mostly why im unsure of the, "wash bake." To me a wash is 5 or 10 degrees hotter.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Exactly what I do, polish emax with fine silicon rubber wheel and a buff of diamond paste polish, it gives the crown a beautiful luster!!

Yea, i dont like the glazed look. That shine will come when the crown is saturated with saliva. I always like to glaze and then run some diamond paste over the crown for a more realistic look...

 

[EJADA]

You glaze the part of the crown that is not going to be covered with the Emax Ceram. So you can fire it at the higher temperature like a stained and glazed emax. Once the ceram is on you have to lower the temperature. Matt Roberts does this in one of his online courses I took.

I read an article Matt Roberts did this and it is also covered in thee manual. It is a good and simple technique. I agree though that getting the different glazed surfaces to match is the most difficult part of this technique. I polish with an EXA gray point followed by zirconbrite polish. Seems to work for this. For the most part I have changed ti the Brad Jones style where I trough inc and layer most if not all of facial. I feel this gives me more control over final result. Many times the ging/body area will only have a thin layer of ceram over. No right or wrong just differing options. EJADA

 

[adamb4321]

We have a programat 5000 and its pre preprogramed wash firing for emax press is he same temp as the ceram firings, this is mostly why im unsure of the, "wash bake." To me a wash is 5 or 10 degrees hotter.

In this case it's just a thin layer of porcelain to make sure you have a proper bond with the lithium disilicate, if you go for a full build up without a wash maybe you're going to get the bulk of porcelain "pulling" away from the substructure.

From Ivoclar:

Layering materials must not be applied on unfired wash layers (powders and pastes),since this will result in
a delamination of the layering ceramic. The wash (foundation) must be fired before the actual layering
procedure is started.

As I understand it, the instructions do not actually say to use glaze as the wash layer, but that you can use glaze liquid to mix with the clear/enamel or whatever you're using for the wash.

From Ivoclar:

Wash firing (foundation)
Before the foundation is applied, the restoration must be free from dirt and oil. Once the restoration has been cleaned,
it must not be contaminated in any way. Conduct the foundation firing using Incisal or Transpa (clear, neutral)
materials or with IPS e.max Ceram Shades, Incisal Shades and Essence materials. The IPS e.max Ceram ZirLiner
must not be used. Please follow the instructions provided below:
– Use the IPS e.max Ceram Build-up Liquids (allround and soft) to mix the Incisal, Transpa and Impulse
materials. If a mouldable consistency is preferred, the IPS e.max Ceram Glaze and Stain
Liquids (allround and longlife) can be used. Apply a thin, but complete coat of
the foundation.
– Mix the paste or powder with the IPS e.max Ceram Glaze and Stain Liquid
(allround and long-life) to the desired consistency. Apply a thin, but complete
coat of the foundation on the entire framework surface.