E4D plan mill

[EJADA]

Just wondering iff I can scan and design say a veneer on my freedom HD. And then mill on a plan mill. Just curious.

 

[2thm8kr]

Yes, but you will need a utility software from E4D called job server. Are you going to buy one?

 

[EJADA]

I have a Client with one. Would just like to try milling a few veneers. If I like them. Who knows. I do a ton of veneers. Maybe try the new LD from GC. I would like to be doing diagnostic wax ups then copy them and mill a perfect match.

 

[EJADA]

Too bad I can't mill on the OLD Cerec mill. When I bought out the guy here where I am I inherited one. Have no idea how to use it.

 

[2thm8kr]

I have a Client with one. Would just like to try milling a few veneers. If I like them. Who knows. I do a ton of veneers. Maybe try the new LD from GC. I would like to be doing diagnostic wax ups then copy them and mill a perfect match.

Unless GC makes blocks with an E4D specific mandrel, you won't be using that material.
Your client will have to get the Job Server utility installed and licensed on a machine in his office and the mill will need to be configured as well. That software has some bugs in it. Also not sure if you would be able to send files from remote machine via the net.
Milling veneers will present some challenges. You will need to mill some to work out sprue angles and your margin thickness settings.

 

[JMN]

Is the buginess in Job Server buggy working with any software, or does exo or 3shape work any better with it. Or are the even an option?

Doc of mine has E4D and was asking if I could design for him. Thinking...

 

[2thm8kr]

Is the buginess in Job Server buggy working with any software, or does exo or 3shape work any better with it. Or are the even an option?

Doc of mine has E4D and was asking if I could design for him. Thinking...

I can't give you a straight answer because I don't have it completly figured out yet. E4D design software is geared for 3axis milling. The design is in the 3 axis world from the moment you start designing the restoration. With 3shape or exocad you can design for 3 axis, but not necessarily the same as designing in E4D software. When you import into the E4D CAM software it orients it for milling with their CAM. My best guess is it doesn't always translate well, kind of like English and most other languages.

E4D has a mill simulation in their design software which Job Server does not have. This gives you the opportunity to check how the resto will mill before putting a block in and letting it rip. If you do not have the path of draw correct you will have issues. Some can be overcome by changing your parameters some just make no sense at all. You will not get much in tech support using Job Server.
Maybe Luke will chime in. I know he uses it too.

 

[JMN]

I can't give you a straight answer because I don't have it completly figured out yet. E4D design software is geared for 3axis milling. The design is in the 3 axis world from the moment you start designing the restoration. With 3shape or exocad you can design for 3 axis, but not necessarily the same as designing in E4D software. When you import into the E4D CAM software it orients it for milling with their CAM. My best guess is it doesn't always translate well, kind of like English and most other languages.

E4D has a mill simulation in their design software which Job Server does not have. This gives you the opportunity to check how the resto will mill before putting a block in and letting it rip. If you do not have the path of draw correct you will have issues. Some can be overcome by changing your parameters some just make no sense at all. You will not get much in tech support using Job Server.
Maybe Luke will chime in. I know he uses it too.

Well, you may not think much about your knowledge level, but it was more than I had! Thanks for what you were able to give me. I've never dealt with E4D except to glare at them and think bad things in doc's offices.

There's much more mental planning work to overcome the gifts the software gives that the machine cannot match when designing for them is the short version as I understand your statements.

Translation in human languages is always difficult because we have connotations and assumptions that are not stated clearly, if ever. Machines are an extension of us and have problems for the same reason. If you want to see a nasty to translate machine language:
http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/bf/

 

[CoolHandLuke]

the E4D is a good little unit with only a few minor annoyances. 2th is completely correct.

the orientation of units needs tweaking sometimes, the mandrel is unique and proprietary so new materials will take forever to become integrated. and the small bur size is still >1mm so compensating for this can be a pain.

i would never dream of attempting to mill a veneer on this though. way too much to go wrong. and multiple unit cases will mean standing next to the thing waiting for units to finish. waste of time.

its a fair single crown tool. rush work, etc. nothing too fancy, certainly nothing complicated, nor difficult to shade - unless you are the kind of person to do Value blocks and spend time staining it.

dies needs to be really perfect.

and no, despite what any sales person my tell you it does not have single micron precision. half the time it doesnt even read the wear on burs right.

 

[EJADA]

Wow. Great info. Well take that off the list of thoughts. Thanks CHL.

 

[EJADA]

So on the next thought. If I were to get a table top mill, one that can mill dry and wet so I can mill LD. What might y'all recommend. Since I have a freedom HD I have considered the sharp mill from DOF. with the added wet package. Or Maybe a Jensen VHF. any other options I should consider. ??

 

[CoolHandLuke]

i hear wieland, roland, and versamill all have wet mill for blueblocks available.

 

[2thm8kr]

So on the next thought. If I were to get a table top mill, one that can mill dry and wet so I can mill LD. What might y'all recommend. Since I have a freedom HD I have considered the sharp mill from DOF. with the added wet package. Or Maybe a Jensen VHF. any other options I should consider. ??

Along with all the mlls Luke mentioned there is also the 250i by Imes. Look for something with a solid frame and servo rather than stepper motors for axis motion. If you do start milling LD it is important to keep the mill clean. I can't stress this enough. The swarf from grinding LD is as fine as talc and gets into every nook and cranny of the mill. It gets hard and crusty and builds up quick if you don't clean regularly. It is also hard on the impellers for the coolant pump. I change the coolant every 10 crowns and clean the collets every 3 hours of milling time.

It is possible to mill veneers with E4D, but success is dependent on prep design and final thickness. Sharp edges around the incisal and feather edge margins, you have a 50/50 chance of success. You can mill acrylic. I have experimented with making molds of different blocks with the mandrel in place and processing my own blocks to mill veneers and then press in emax. Works OK, just not into doing veneers enough to put the extra effort in to perfect the technique.

 

[Gru]

...and no, despite what any sales person my tell you it does not have single micron precision. half the time it doesnt even read the wear on burs right.

So what is it really, esp. marginally? As bad as cerec?

 

[2thm8kr]

So what is it really, esp. marginally? As bad as cerec?

No. I have done over 5k emax with it. At first it was spotty. After getting the settings dialed in margins spot on. I have some pictures of margins posted here somewhere. Very little finishing out of the mill.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

So what is it really, esp. marginally? As bad as cerec?

thats why i say its FUSSY. if you dont make the right kind, shape, and taper of margin youre going to have a bad time.

but yes, there are settings you can diddle with to help you get where you need to be.