E.max Multi

[RileyS]

edited cause answered

 

[rkm rdt]

I've been asking for emax multiCAD blocks for years. Falling on deaf ears.

HAVE YOU TRIED TYPING IN UPPER CASE?

 

[zero_zero]

HAVE YOU TRIED TYPING IN UPPER CASE?

YOU COULD TRY CHANGING THE FONT SIZE TOO

 

[TheLabGuy]

Well at least we got one page out this thread before it went tlts up!!! Nice fellas

 

[rkm rdt]

Well at least we got one page out this thread before it went tlts up!!! Nice fellas

So what is the consensus on porcelain layered zirconia?

 

[TheLabGuy]

So what is the consensus on porcelain layered zirconia?

They talked a lot about that...only consensus I heard was that most layering porcelain will fracture in time due to the lack of fracture toughness and strength 80-130MPa. However, still some of the prettiest stuff out there and some folks are still using it and like the fact you are only grinding a coping versus the whole thing like a monolithic zirconium if it needs replaced.

 

[rkm rdt]

They talked a lot about that...only consensus I heard was that most layering porcelain will fracture in time due to the lack of fracture toughness and strength 80-130MPa. However, still some of the prettiest stuff out there and some folks are still using it and like the fact you are only grinding a coping versus the whole thing like a monolithic zirconium if it needs replaced.

The only variable to that is the amount and location of the cutback but we've gone down this road before.

 

[basler]

If biggest problem for young doctors is cutting Zr ,there life would a breeze.lol

If they dont have anything good to say about Zr they never seen or done nice zr work and they dont have basic knowledge of when and how to use zr and emax.

Most of them have 150k paperweight in the back room called cerec so they will love only emax even in the grave,because they were told couple of years ago when same day crap Zr on cerec was introduced that they can do as good looking zr crown as good old emax....well not really..so now they are not happy

Same day Zr with Cerec is mission impossible for esthetics when you fire that Zr in 15-20 min and hope it will be translucent as emax hell no the esthetics is not there..

.Nice translucent Zr needs a long overnight cycle who f... has time for that when you want to be done with prep/scan/design/mill/fire/glaze and cement in 90 min as Sirona tells you.....

Why the f... they care about cutting a crown they just cemented/bonded????
Bc it was a crapy prep ,crappier impression/scan with a lab slip saying .....do your best and they hope for a miracle when the lab box is delivered in there hands.

I would rather cut 3 Zr crown then emax any day ..... and I cut a loooot of crowns every week.........

I use both of them ,love both materials in the last 2-3 years I can`t live without Zr....
Still press emax bc I can`t get the esthetics in some cases .

 

[Sda36]

I'm curious if anyone out there is using Multi? I've been to a few study club meetings lately and almost every speaker doesn't have anything nice to say about zirconium at all. The thought is the younger generation is going to have to cut these off and if the crown can't break, then something else will and they were showing clinical evidence of this. With that in mind, I think it would be a good business choice to get in the e.max Multi game. So I'm curious, do you like it, specific press ovens (3010 or 5010?),cost of ingots and workflow similar to regular e.max?

This takes me back to Spectrum Day in Chicago 2009. The stage was "Crazy" on emax, big speakers for sure...Then Dr Ed McLaren got up, loves emax but has noticed some breakages in posteriors. Well, the entire room was sucked free of Oxygen in a nanosecond...silence.
He said that as long as they're bonded there were no issues. Since that date have requested units be bonded. So often minimal thickness requirements (Ivoclar) are challenged and if bonded strength is almost twice if not more depending on prep. size and dimensions. Can't say if Dr.'s always adhered to that protocol but so far, so good. But then again, Emax has gained strength over the years...

 

[grantoz]

i would look at who is sponsoring the speakers and which company is putting these lectures on. i have been doing zi crowns for 20 years now no one is up in arms with getting the crowns offf if they have too .in some cases if the zi crown is cemented on once you get thru the zi you can crack it of but with emax bonded you have to grind it away .

 

[mmbh]

i would look at who is sponsoring the speakers and which company is putting these lectures on. i have been doing zi crowns for 20 years now no one is up in arms with getting the crowns offf if they have too .in some cases if the zi crown is cemented on once you get thru the zi you can crack it of but with emax bonded you have to grind it away .

I agree. We as labs know that speaker sponsorship plays a huge role in what material is pushed and or bashed. Unfortunately a lot of the docs don't seem to understand this. Just recently a couple accounts starting asking questions regarding the zirconia we were using. They were concerned about the strength because just recently they attended a class and the presenter told them there is no way they are getting the zirconia we told them we are giving them because it looks to good and to translucent. When they showed me the materials low and behold, the presenter was comparing to the original bruxzir material which is super opaque compared to current generation of zirconia. . Those two accounts were happy with what we told them but it goes to show we have to be diligent and keep educating the docs on current standards.

 

[FASTFNGR]

New studies are showing that LD (Lithium Disilicate...i.e. e.max, LiSi) when cemented using a traditional RGMI (Resin Glass Modified Ionomer) luting cement showed more advantages than using bonding, even long term (which was the way I was taught, that it was better to bond them...not so now). Docs would rather cut off e.max than zirconium any day and twice on Sunday. Sooo...with that in mind, I'm seeing some of my clients go back to lithium dislicates, especially for premolars and anteriors. Also, the remake studies are showing less than 1% remake factor...some of these studies are very large with a ton of data.

My question is: why are they cutting a zirconia crown in the first place? Crappy margins probably?
2- use the right diamond burr for zirconia.
Is that a reason to dump zirconia?