Crown design after custom abutment design exocad.

[Dwayne]

I have designed a custom abutment in exocad, using Straumann materials configuration and uploaded the file to Straumann for milling. I now would like to design a zirconia crown to fit the abutment. If I select "Design superstructure now" doesn't that mean I am designing the crown with the original "coping" in "titanium" parameters? Do I need to go back in, change to "anatomic crown\zirconia" and resave the job first? Thanks

 

[LarryRDC]

If you set up theproject with the material you wanted for the crown ( ex: Zirconia).....then selcted "on custom abutment" ( material ex: titanium) Then yes, select design "superstructure now" You can select the materials that you want for each one when set up the project.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

for Straumann, the coping needs to be selected in the original setup

 

[Andrew Priddy]

 

[Andrew Priddy]

pick the Straumann Group all the way down on the dropdown..
in the design stage you will be prompted to download material files you can't get on straumanns web site

you will likely need the Straumann order tool v1.3.4.1, im running Galway
5 mnths ago this was an epic S*itshow..
i've got a ton of screenshots i can go thru, but this was their "unlaunched" order tool and they kept trying to remove it..
only 1 person i talked to knew anything about exo, and he had been there a year, so.. anyway, ive been doing custom abutments n crowns at Haus.. dual file, with very few issues now.

just my experience and new "launch" pains...
now, lets talk about being "double billed" on my CAD/cam orders shall we?

Nobel Biocare needs to be set up as a waxup..
you will need to request "setup" and will send files thru dental share.. they are 3 months new on this.. takes a few days
first case went great... they sent me duplicates of everything, including the bill.

now, how fun is TRU abutments new upload portal?

 

[Dwayne]

Thank you Larry. That answered my question.

Straumann has a stranglehold on the surgeons in my area, so I'm forced to use that vile company for "authentic" custom abutments. I would like to outsource the crown milling to my preferred partner. If I'm selecting "3m Lava plus" under material for the crown and I change all the Straumann parameters to the ones I use with my preferred milling partner. Could I expect to get my usual brand x zirconia crown back and have it fit the Straumann milled abutment? Is this what I see referred to as a split or dual file job?
Straumann is literally the worst company I have ever dealt with.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

No. you won't select a coping material.. if you do, you will be milling it at straumann.
simply mill the stl.. i've stated this above

 

[Dwayne]

Thanks Andrew. I'm wanting to do this for I/O scans
I'm setting the initial job up with Straumann as the material config. Selecting anatomic crown on custom abutment. The abutment is designed and sent to Straumann before the crown design is finalized in the "design superstructure now" step. After sending the abutment to Straumann for milling, I want to finalize the crown design in the "design superstructure now" step and send the crown stl to my preferred milling partner. Not Straumann.
The coping selection for the custom abutment has a set of parameters and the anatomic crown has its own set of parameters, both specific to Straumann production needs. I want to change only the parameters for the crown, at time of initial job set up right before you save the job. Would this allow me to have Straumann mill the abutment and someone else mill a correctly fitting crown for the abutment?

 

[Andrew Priddy]

Straumann will not let you send the file for the abutment if it is set up as split. thats what im saying here...
you can design just fine.. just not upload... does you NO GOOD.

needs to be set up the way it is on screen. sorry. it's bs. but thats what im saying.

set up as coping... apply zero on the cutabck and you will have a final crown when you design over sub structure..
for screw retained follow Adam Rutherfords screwmentable video

edit: make sure your abutments are in production before sending off for zir

 

[Dwayne]

Thanks Andrew. I understand the split file thing now.
If I use the crown derived from the coping selection, isn't it created with the Straumann parameters? I don't see how I would change them in order to achieve proper fit with my milling partner.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

no. you are not picking any crown material at all. thats what i;m trying to say..
look at the order.. coping/ti abutment/ti abutment

you don't get to set your parameters, because you don't "get to" design split file.. yep, you are stuck with their parameters.. as far as i know.. but fit is actually the "least of my concerns".

 

[LarryRDC]

Not sure if the Straumann material config allows, but this should work ( I set all my own material configs by default).......If you want to design a full contour on a custom abutment Set up your project as "digital copy milling" full contour crown, choose "design digitally" "custom abutment" using you prefered full contour parameters. Then you could mill, or send the Custom abutment stl to where ever you want . Then mill, or send the (full counour) wax up stl to where ever you want . All in one project..

 

[Andrew Priddy]

Thanks Andrew. I understand the split file thing now.
If I use the crown derived from the coping selection, isn't it created with the Straumann parameters? I don't see how I would change them in order to achieve proper fit with my milling partner.

The fit is actually nice.. I have a few more coming in so I’ll pay a little more attention..

Straumann had a hard time getting the bi on the bridge milled.. had already ordered the bridge.. but it worked out.. feel like I’ve been all alone in getting running with EXO n Straumann and EXO n Nobel Bio OEM. EXO isn’t supported.

 

[Dwayne]

Thanks Andrew.
How is setting the job up as an "anatomic wax" up designed digitally, any different than selecting "anatomic crown"?
How are you able to upload only the abutment to Straumann and separate out the crown stl to be milled elsewhere? When I upload to Straumann it will only let me upload the entire folder. I cannot remove any individual files or alter anything within the folder. I'm uploading to their "Straumann Order Tool"
I'm also in the middle of jumping through all the Nobel OEM/exocad hoops. My understanding is that Nobel is just getting on board with this. It is done through Dental Share. I just bought a scan body for a case, you must have one of the last two versions of exocad, nothing older.

 

[Andrew Priddy]

needs to be set up as coping.. that's just the way it is... it is Straumann control.
the abutment needs to be sent before the crown is designed.. basically straumannn lets you stick a crown under it for reference.
I just had an RC come in so I'll run it thru tonight

 

[Andrew Priddy]

you send the abutment before crown/coping design..
this is essentially locked down by Straumann.. Nobel is a little easier to deal with, but that's based on one file sent.. like I stated though, you can have an anatomic wax.. scanned or designed in Nobel

How are you able to upload only the abutment to Straumann and separate out the crown stl to be milled elsewhere? When I upload to Straumann it will only let me upload the entire folder. I cannot remove any individual files or alter anything within the folder. I'm uploading to their "Straumann Order Tool"

 

[LarryRDC]

Use their OEM Tibases. Then you can design SR crowns or custom abutments in ZI (with esthetic highly polished custom ZI tissue profiles) ALL IN ONE PROJECT
Your using Genuine parts,,,,,and not beholden to their milling centers.
Tibases vs Milled titanium Cstm abutments?...Thats another argument
https://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/ti-based-implant-crowns.32802/page-3#post-349621

 

[Andrew Priddy]

If you set up theproject with the material you wanted for the crown ( ex: Zirconia).....then selcted "on custom abutment" ( material ex: titanium) Then yes, select design "superstructure now" You can select the materials that you want for each one when set up the project.

for TRU or manufacturing that allows split files, then yes.. since you are breaking apart the stl files.. order is blanket manufacturing.. restoration picked at scan body correlation step.
Straumann pulls the entire locked folder, and won't allow anything beyond straumann. Order is Straumann Manufacturing
Nobel is sent thru dental share.. Order is Nobel manufacturing

 

[Andrew Priddy]

Use their OEM Tibases. Then you can design SR crowns or custom abutments in ZI (with esthetic highly polished custom ZI tissue profiles) ALL IN ONE PROJECT
Your using Genuine parts,,,,,and not beholden to their milling centers.
Tibases vs Milled titanium Cstm abutments?...Thats another argument
https://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/threads/ti-based-implant-crowns.32802/page-3#post-349621

it's my policy not to use ti-bases..
besides.. if I do a Straumann base + an outsourced milled abutment + an outsourced milled crown..
nope

 

[LarryRDC]

That's Cool, Gotta do what works best for you. I like a little more freedom and control with who I outsource my ZI milling to. I outsource/partner to small local lab with a CAM guy that is up to any challange. I have found that some designs can be too advanced for the larger milling centers to deal with
properly. Was just suggesting to the OP that there are other options that can work.