Cerac MC XL vs E4D

[paulg100]

"yes,,,sometimes i do spend a minute or to hitting ares to create a sealed margin....but don't the guys pressing dothat also?"

there is a big differene here:

The pressed units internal fit is a true representation of the prep surface. If there is a blip or small bubble from investing, its a interference and is a simple case of removing that and the unit seats.

With the milled units, the fit surface is not a true representation of the prep due to the low quality scan data and limitations of a 1mm bur. So what your actually doing is hand milling the fit surface to fit the die.

that is the big difference and why a pressed unit takes maybe 1 minute to fit down and a milled one is more like 10-15mins for me and even then the marginal fit dosent touch pressed.

 

[BobCDT]

I added a post to this thread yesterday. Why was it taken down? The post was an honest personal experience with Cerec. We worked very hard to make the system work.
Bob

 

[TheLabGuy]

I added a post to this thread yesterday. Why was it taken down? The post was an honest personal experience with Cerec. We worked very hard to make the system work.
Bob

I think you're talking about post #39, and it's still there The moderators don't delete on this forum, unless it's spam. They may edit it some (for obvious reasons),but not delete it, we crossed that bridge years ago

 

[Alistar]

Ok, after all that has been said here, how and why is Cerec synonymous with "cutting-edge" cad/cam?

And

Ironicly we had a patient call our lab Friday asking for a dentists referal, because she needed 3 Cerec crowns remade. The margins were way open and she had a serious decay/carries issue. She didn't want to go back to her original doc, she just wanted to go to a doc that would do it right.

 

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

When I was looking at cad/cam systems 6 years ago I had the Cerec boys down for an inlab demo, It seemed very noisy and tacky, cheaply made and it just looked a poor unit. I am so glad I walked away. With all that I have read on this site it looks like it was one of the best moves I ever made!!!!!!!!

 

[EJADA]

Ok, after all that has been said here, how and why is Cerec synonymous with "cutting-edge" cad/cam?

And

Ironicly we had a patient call our lab Friday asking for a dentists referal, because she needed 3 Cerec crowns remade. The margins were way open and she had a serious decay/carries issue. She didn't want to go back to her original doc, she just wanted to go to a doc that would do it right.

I hear that all the time. To bad the public is so in the dark. I f the public was made aware of the options and why I think there would be a small local lab rebound.

 

[cadcamartist]

The circled spots on the scan I had that was uploaded are whats called powder spikes...because this was an intra oral scan sometimes you have "spikes" like that when the doctor powders too heavily...i havent seen those on cases i have scanned in with the ineos blue...And you are right Paul i have spent 5 minutes on some preps eliminating high spots before...I just feel that if my unit is done in half the time of pressing,then I still have the time advantage..I am only milling posteriors. And I think one reason that I have had more success than some is that I do not do work for just anybody with my inlab system..Only those who produce high quality preps with round contours and a very smooth tooth structure. Others send traditional impressions and I scan them in. I have an awesome cerec rep that has spent lots of time chairside with my inlab doctors training them on preps...After all, those doctors who dont give a crap about their preps, have no place in the cad cam sector. But I know you guys know much more than I about what we are doing....I want to buy a separate system in time to do all of my zirconia...But the inlab system was the best buy for my business model at the time and I work hard to provide the best I can for the docs. That is why I like to see bite wing xrays of crowns pre cementation/bonding to know we are hitting the mark...and if it means an extra 5 minutes per case....I have a family to feed so I just keep on doing the best I can.

By the way...for the other systems that you guys are using....do you have any kind of check models or are you just delivering them as you recieve them from your mill?

 

[cadcamartist]

i wouldn't neccessarliy associate "Cerec" with "Inlab"...The difference is the doctor is not a technician. I think a lab with Inlab will always produce better results than a doctor doing inhouse cerec. They dont have time to design with the right parameters for each individual case...Most often, they think it is a vending machine that spits out crowns

just my opinion

 

[harmonylab]

yes,,,sometimes i do spend a minute or to hitting ares to create a sealed margin....but don't the guys pressing dothat also? My units are done before pressers even turn their burnout furnace on. So 5 minutes is no biggie to me at all .I would NEVER mill in endo mode...Thats a bad idea. The new software you can fix those small spots you circled on thedie.
ZVAC...zyrcomat is good..but if you can afford toinvest...The new InFire Speed furnace only has the advantage of a 90 minute sintering cycle. I can mill 10 units per day as well as all my e.max and TZI an dthey are done before that evening if I am really loaded with cases.
And mr ***...how can you comment on my skills as a dental Tech. I have a degree in dental technology and have owned lab for over 6 years. Sounds like knocking me is exactly what you are doing...Think i have had enough of the DentalLab "Network", I thought this was a placeto help each other not a pissing contest.

Zirconia is only milled in endo mode. There is no other option.

And software can't fix a bad scan. It can try smoothing it out, but bad data is bad data, you can't recreate the original.

 

[RileyS]

And I think one reason that I have had more success than some is that I do not do work for just anybody with my inlab system..Only those who produce high quality preps with round contours and a very smooth tooth structure. Others send traditional impressions and I scan them in. I have an awesome cerec rep that has spent lots of time chairside with my inlab doctors training them on preps...After all, those doctors who dont give a crap about their preps, have no place in the cad cam sector.

Again, not attacking but discussing.
The fact that one can only use the machine with docs that do "text book" preps is a reason to avoid the system. I can't depend on my rep to teach my accounts how to prep and I gave up trying to teach them as well. And docs that don't give a crap about margins can still have perfectly sealed margins milled with the previousley mentioned systems, we just give them the repeated warning that they are more prone to failures (which one account knows of very well and still will not change preps or material!) Putting aside that new argument of material selection per prep design, why spend the same, if not more, money on sirona when you can get a machine that does it all regardless of prep, or just buy a quality open scanner so you can own all the milling machines (outsource)?

 

[mwilles]

MC XL for sale

Ill sell you my whole system for $15,000. Mill, scanner and Unlimited dongle

 

[holyhikaru]

Ill sell you my whole system for $15,000. Mill, scanner and Unlimited dongle

Which system?

 

[RileyS]

Forgot about what the lot of this forum says, but wanted to add this new info from Glidewell. They reported in a recent lecture that 55% of all units done with their sirona MCXL's came out with chipped margins!!! PaulG, in your quest to bring Sirona to justice, try getting into contact with the cad/cam pro at Glidewell.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

I dont understand why people listen to the marketers and sales pitches.
But when an actual user, a tech or doc, complain. People just assume its isolated.
Right now I am cursing the MCXL for wasting my time with BS errors.
If I owned this machine. I would take it up to the moutains, and set it on fire. Dance around it like an indian.
And I would take pictures of the MCXL in flames. Then post them on DLN. And have more LIKES than Elvis has fans.

 

[RileyS]

Wow! You drug up this old thread! Shows the amount of frustrations the cerwreck/craplab (by the way, I do believe I coined craplab...just sayin). Too bad Sirona keeps selling that crap. Tsk Tsk

 

[rkm rdt]

Wow! You drug up this old thread! Shows the amount of frustrations the cerwreck/craplab (by the way, I do believe I coined craplab...just sayin). Too bad Sirona keeps selling that crap. Tsk Tsk

Hey I'm glad they do, They make for great trade- ins .

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

SO FRUSTRATED TODAY!
I have 14 units to mill but the mcxl stops every 5 minutes with each of the following at random; "Fatal Error; Step Motor Error; Insufficient Water Pressure."
I even put BRAND NEW filters on, and still get the water error every 5 minutes. I even took the compressed air to the water/filter housing and the mcxl itself.
I've made progress only by, saying, ''OK," and continuing the mill. Its taking over twice as long to mill 12 units in a 65/40. Its been ALLL DAY trying to finish this job...
I F&^%ING HATE SIRONA!!!!!
OH LOOK! ANOTHER FATAL ERROR AS I TYPE!

 

[eyeloveteeth]

are you using the filters from Patterson? Also are you adding 1 cup of lubricant? Adding the distilled ice cubes?

Step motor error is usually tool is worn out or when it went to "test" it somehow came back shy.


When was the last time you had them repair or replace the holder/motor?


I am so glad these errors are long behind me lol

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

are you using the filters from Patterson? Also are you adding 1 cup of lubricant? Adding the distilled ice cubes?

Step motor error is usually tool is worn out or when it went to "test" it somehow came back shy.


When was the last time you had them repair or replace the holder/motor?


I am so glad these errors are long behind me lol

Yes they are sirona filters from Patterson themselves...

Yes, lubed up. And no ice cubes.
The tools have about 15 units on me before I started this job.

The last time a tech came out he broke the machine. We got a loaner and sent it out. It came back, "repaired." The repair was replacing boards in the motor control arms. After 1 single day nothing worked again. Later were told its cause water got into the control arm. And they wanted to charge for the repairs. MAYBE IF U PUT IT BACK TOGETHER RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!!!!!
AHHHHHHH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eyeloveteeth]

it went out for repair? interesting, usually they have a guy named Joe who was pretty highly trained, he would do all the repairs on site, and also had a loaner for us.