3Shape Antagonist Problems

[Janae_CADCAM]

I am having a lot of problems when scanning the antagonist for Large cases. Single units are just fine I just put a rubber band around the model work and my bite comes out just fine. But on the larger cases I feel I have tried everything, double checked everything and still when I get to the design my two models are completely out of occlusion.

The case I am working on now I have made Siltec stops one for each side of the posterior and one on the anterior (tripod) and with the stops in, I super glue two metal bars to each side for extra support. I have the scanner scan the bite and I pin the models together using all three points and I get a really good pin on both upper and lower.

Then when I get to the design section I can see that the bite is like 3mm+ open. Not at all how it looked in the scanner. I have rechecked everything on the models and on the articulator and everything was placed in the scanner where it should be. I really have no idea what I could do differently. I feel like I have checked and tried everything. And I have this battle with all of my larger cases.

 

[JohnWilson]

Is it auto detecting when you merge the mounted models to the master scans?

 

[Sevan P]

Maybe you accidently skipped the unable to auto align and it left the bite open. On all my models I like to take sticky wax and put 2-3 drops on the lingual side or on full arch cases I put the drop on the incisal edge of the lower under the upper arch and it works great. Or on big cases that I need to scan with the door open I use plastic 8ga rods and super glue 3-4 in a tripod or square and that works great. Then in the alignment section if a single point works and aligns right I go with it but sometime a three point works better.

Do you have a screen shot of the alignment in the scanitrestoration screen? I have no issues it really might be a simple user oversight.

 

[Janae_CADCAM]

Here are some screen shots when the two arches get placed into the scanner I have metal rods super glued to each side of the model and this thing is solid not moving. I also check after it is done scanning and everything in the bite is right where it needs to be while it is getting scanned

 

[JohnWilson]

Can I ask why your doing a wax up rather than CAD?

Again its super frustrating trying to grab my mouse to try and rotate these photos

 

[Adigitalsmile]

I too tried to rotate the design of the crown on the screen.

 

[Ryan Gottlieb]

On big cases, I use close the models with articulating
Paper on the articulator to mark the contact points. Then I do a texture scan. During the design phase, I select the articulator and
Adjust the bite until I have red contact points on every marked spot on the arch.

 

[Sevan P]

That looks like a good alignment to me. Maybe a glitch during installation? Have you tried to reinstall 3shape? Re-calibrate the scanner? You don't use the articulator feature in design do you?

Can you take a screen shot(s) of the bite after the dies are scanned in, in the scan software? That is a key screen shot as well I would like to see. Jumping from alignment to design is a huge gap.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Maybe you accidently skipped the unable to auto align and it left the bite open. On all my models I like to take sticky wax and put 2-3 drops on the lingual side or on full arch cases I put the drop on the incisal edge of the lower under the upper arch and it works great. Or on big cases that I need to scan with the door open I use plastic 8ga rods and super glue 3-4 in a tripod or square and that works great. Then in the alignment section if a single point works and aligns right I go with it but sometime a three point works better.

Do you have a screen shot of the alignment in the scanitrestoration screen? I have no issues it really might be a simple user oversight.

Very good idea. I used to take my blade and abraid three points that were sure to show in the scan and it made the stitching effortless...

 

[erics24k]

Janae_CADCAM,

You mention having metal rods in the case being scanned.. Are they shiny when being scanned? If so you need to spray them with a scanner spray or any kind of masking spray (a lot of techs use foot spray.) This may not solve the issue but without me seeing the process hands on it's a start.

 

[Marcusthegladiator CDT]

Janae_CADCAM,

You mention having metal rods in the case being scanned.. Are they shiny when being scanned? If so you need to spray them with a scanner spray or any kind of masking spray (a lot of techs use foot spray.) This may not solve the issue but without me seeing the process hands on it's a start.

I think he is just gluing the rods to mount the max and mand casts for a bite scan.

 

[Janae_CADCAM]

Can I ask why your doing a wax up rather than CAD?

Again its super frustrating trying to grab my mouse to try and rotate these photos

I was just doing it this way on this case. It was a full mouth case and the doctors just wanted the two upper 2nd molars in zirconia and we had the wax dialed in for all the other teeth to be pressed e.max. So it was just easier on this one. It was the first time I've done the wax up way, and it turned out better since I could never get the Bite to line up in the proper spot.

 

[Janae_CADCAM]

I think he is just gluing the rods to mount the max and mand casts for a bite scan.

Correct.

 

[Janae_CADCAM]

That looks like a good alignment to me. Maybe a glitch during installation? Have you tried to reinstall 3shape? Re-calibrate the scanner? You don't use the articulator feature in design do you?

I Haven't tried to re-install. The bite always aligns properly for my daily smaller scale restorations. It's just these larger cases. I calibrate my scanner weekly. I have used the articulator feature before. But in this case it wasn't doing me any favors.

 

[Sevan P]

I Haven't tried to re-install. The bite always aligns properly for my daily smaller scale restorations. It's just these larger cases. I calibrate my scanner weekly. I have used the articulator feature before. But in this case it wasn't doing me any favors.

How many units do you scan a day that you need to calibrate weekly? I Calibrate at least once maybe twice a month but usually once a month and I have no issues and scan about 30-50 case a day. No need to constantly calibrate the scanner. I don't think that could cause this issue but in my opinion I don't see then need to calibrate that much.

Try using clear plastic sprues 6gauge if you want to articulate the models for scanning or even use straight hot glue to hold the bite avoid anything that would reflect the laser. Is it possible to send me that scan file I would like to see what happens on my setup, what version are you running 2012 or 2013?