Final model pouring

[CYNOSURER]

shirley.


And not you Ken.


BTW: Our lab mascot is CynoSurely.



She's also our webmaster.

 

[hydent]

I had a giant scorpion as the lab mascot. My buddy owns a construction business he found it out in the desert. He found one that was longer than a 5 gallon bucket it could climb out of the bucket with his tail extended. We used to feed him anything we could never tried a tarantula but I bet it would have been a good match. Here in Nevada tarantulas run wild. Did you catch that one?

 

[TheLabGuy]

I see the resemblance between you and your mascot Tim .....

 

[hydent]

How do you know it's a "she" Tim?

 

[CYNOSURER]

How do you know it's a "she" Tim?

The hairy legs...and the attitude.

 

[CYNOSURER]

I see the resemblance between you and your mascot Tim .....

The only big difference being she has hairy eight legs and I have eight hairy knuckeld thumbs.

 

[CYNOSURER]

Did you catch that one?

It was a rescue project...some guy abondoned her. Can you imagine that!!!

 

[Didley]

I'm really glad you posted how to pour up a model because most of us here didn't know how to pour a cow patty impression (can you sense the sarcasm) I was beginning to wonderand your take on gravity is very informative.Please tell me more I'm glad you showed a final pic of your models too, as if you would be able to tell the inaccuracies from visual inspection every time:rolleyes:That was put there 4 your benefit re border molding. On another note that post dam is pretty intense.Yes, not my work so I'll leave that one I poured my models that way for years I just think you can get better results and eliminate any possibility of inaccuracy by boxing it up. I like pouring it up and walking away not having to wait for the stone to get to a firm enough consistency to place the impression on the cow patty and then trim the sides to the desirable length without covering the borders too much (you can't deny there is some time spent babysitting the models).Yes I can, if you look at the pic of stone in the bowl, the spoon is standing up on its own, as Tim detailed, your mixing your stone to watery, there is no waiting time To me boxing is actually easier and I think if you timed it you would be surprised at how little time it takes (I realize it takes more time and materials but not much). Many of my accounts stopped pouring their own models when they found out I was boxing them which I liked because a few of them stopped using alginate for finals , almost all send a nice pvs with border molded impression for me to pour, now I don't have to use their sh!tty models plus a little more income for the lab.

I'm happy 4 people to pour models any way they like, I'd just like to know if there is a good reason 4 it, and if so I may change my ways too.

 

[Didley]

Let me jog your memory on that bit about destroying the dentists beautiful border molding

:focus:Here is one beef I have with not boxing your final impressions. Us techs whimper, whine and, complain about dentists all of the time for different reasons. Why if a dentist takes the time to border mold and take a beautiful impression would you not box it and give them the courtesy of returning something that is on par to the quality that was given to your lab? It's kind of hypocritical in my opinion to ask them to border mold and take great impressions and then having the tech slapping it on a cow patty. I have to admit that I too used the cow patty method for a long time and I haven't 1 time looked back.

 

[Didley]

So to some up:

No cow pattys!

Gravity.
When you invert, gravity is pulling on they stone and the impression. It is most notible with anterior teeth, you see some thin teeth (they look like the patient has bulemia)

inverting the impression may cause the stone to 'drop' and create a void may be possible with a runny mix and a slooooow hand.

gravity induced migration of air and, even worse, water to the surface. Air causing obvious bubbles and water creating a chalky or micro bubble surface as it later evaporates.

if there was a lot of vibration that I felt I couldn't control

Why if a dentist takes the time to border mold and take a beautiful impression would you not box it and give them the courtesy of returning something that is on par to the quality that was given to your lab?

idiot proofs

Thank you all very much 4 your input

 

[hydent]

I think you mis interpreted (or I my point was poorly made) what point I was making about the border molding I was not saying that it destroyed the border molding when using the "patty" method I was just simply making the point that the dentist spent the extra time and effort to take an accurate impression ............... so why not give them the same effort in return. I'm glad you started a thread asking how we pour our final impressions only to refer to everyone who boxes them as idiots why did you even start the thread if you weren't open to the answers you were going to receive? I'm glad your technique is working out for you for now I'll continue to do it the way all of the "idiots" do it you know idiots like Rob Kreyer, kcdt, etc., also the way all of the "idiots" that wrote the dental literature which teaches our dental students.

 

[kcdt]

When I train newbies to pour up models I make them invert the bowl of spatulated stone over their heads

Oh my god! They made us do that in school to learn how to "eyeball" a proper mix. And now I measure everything but plaster....

The thing is, now I box almost everything. I don't use alginate so much- I go with a 50-50 mix of medium pumice and plaster in a magnetic ring. Works like a charm.
Don't get me wrong, I inverted for years, I also suspended them in a holder, then based for years.
As long as your technique is sound, the results are comparable.
there's so many ways to skin this cat, and different people work in the ways that predictably get them there- I see nothing wrong with that as long as the end result is good and the method predictable.
Part of the reason I box is that in my C&B years I got used to base formers and flowstone. So now I box my endentulous models and pour them in flowstone, which you can't do any other way.

Who knew slapping around stone would be so passionate????

 

[CYNOSURER]

Hey Ken, we're not called plaster monkeys for nothing.

Hydent, nobody said boxing was for idiots. What I said, which Didley cut and pasted, was that boxing is a way to idiot-proof pouring up the model...of course it's hard as hell to teach an idiot how to do the boxing part properly...though you say it's easy...easy enough for a caveman?

 

[hydent]

It's all good Tim, I couldn't agree more with Ken on the issue if your getting satisfactory results then more power to ya . I believe when statements like "idiot proofing" are made, that suggests that people who use the boxing method are to big of idiots to pour up a model properly without boxing. Which is an insult as I'm quite sure everyone here who box impressions are far from idiots.

 

[TheLabGuy]

I Which is an insult as I'm quite sure everyone here who box impressions are far from idiots.

You haven't seen me box impressions have you......lol

 

[hydent]

You haven't seen me box impressions have you......lol

lol, well if I were to do it the traditional way with bead wax and box wax it would take me a long time too.

 

[Didley]

I think you mis interpreted (or I my point was poorly made) what point I was making about the border molding I was not saying that it destroyed the border molding when using the "patty" method I was just simply making the point that the dentist spent the extra time and effort to take an accurate impression ............... so why not give them the same effort in return. I'm glad you started a thread asking how we pour our final impressions only to refer to everyone who boxes them as idiots why did you even start the thread if you weren't open to the answers you were going to receive? I'm glad your technique is working out for you for now I'll continue to do it the way all of the "idiots" do it you know idiots like Rob Kreyer, kcdt, etc., also the way all of the "idiots" that wrote the dental literature which teaches our dental students.

Hydent, I think U need to take a spoonful of plaster and harden up yourself. I'm not calling anyone an "Idiot", I went through and cut and pasted others reasons 4 boxing. If you reread my original post, I didn't ask anyone how they poured their impressions, I asked for reasons why it is a taught method, I'm interested to know if there is any advantage over the method I use, if so I may may change. "Idiot proofing"(not my words) is a legitimate reason to teach it in learning institutions, it gives those with limited experience a better chance to achieve a good result and teaches what is trying to be achieved. My reason for posting the photo's of my preferred method was to demonstrate, to mainly you, how borders are not destroyed and to ask for a critique of the method and how the result varies from your boxed models. What gave you the idea I was wanting you to check the accuracy of the model looking at the photograph? Is that another reason I should cut and past "Hydent thinks unboxed models are inaccurate". You clearly say you have "never looked back since" you changed to the boxing in method, does this not imply there is an advantage you have seen in the quality of your models, what is that?

As for "also the way all of the "idiots" that wrote the dental literature which teaches our dental students" (That's a quote of you, I don't wish to insult any one) do you still do every thing you were taught while learning your craft, with out questioning it. May be time to take a slightly more scientific approach to dentistry and question your methods a little, m.

Learn to read and comprehend and get on to the same page as the rest of us tiger.popcorn

 

[kcdt]

ouch.... you guys are really letting the fur fly. I for one do not find so much a superiority of one over the other- as long as the technique is strong.

I don't get my panties all twisted when anyone says boxing is idiot proof, because, well, I can be a real idiot on the right day.
So my rationale:

I don't suspend and then base because if you get busy doing something else and it completely sets, then (even if you have retention and soak it),you risk the base de-laminating. This usually happens during devesting from the flask, and the remount to equilibrate becomes a real bitch. As it seems to happen when I'm busy, the solution for me was to stop making my own life unpredictable.

I gave up on the immediate invert onto a patty. because, if you have limited counter space to work with (AND mine's a stainless steel table),then, in order to avoid vibration, ALL workflow has to stop there until the bases are set. So when you're up to the eyeballs...

I box with a magnetic strip because beading with wax rope and boxing with sheet wax is an exercise in inventing new profanities.
Plus when they get wet or the weight of the stone hits it all, then the limitations of my ability are glaringly evident in the form of all that stone going everywhere.
Did I mention being busy?

I use the plaster/ pumice mix instead of alginate because I can pour it when I get back to it.
Did I mention busy?

I'm maybe as smart as the next guy, but when I'm busy, those few brain cells get spread out multi-tasking, and the end result is several idiots working on several jobs at once.
So I need a little idiotproof.
I prefer to go home at night and have that first cold one be a refreshing end to a good day, not an attempt to avoid sticking the proverbial gun in my mouth.

Just this idiot's opinion....

 

[hydent]

Hydent, I think U need to take a spoonful of plaster and harden up yourself. I'm not calling anyone an "Idiot", I went through and cut and pasted others reasons 4 boxing. If you reread my original post, I didn't ask anyone how they poured their impressions, I asked for reasons why it is a taught method, I'm interested to know if there is any advantage over the method I use, if so I may may change. "Idiot proofing"(not my words) is a legitimate reason to teach it in learning institutions, it gives those with limited experience a better chance to achieve a good result and teaches what is trying to be achieved. My reason for posting the photo's of my preferred method was to demonstrate, to mainly you, how borders are not destroyed and to ask for a critique of the method and how the result varies from your boxed models. What gave you the idea I was wanting you to check the accuracy of the model looking at the photograph? Is that another reason I should cut and past "Hydent thinks unboxed models are inaccurate". You clearly say you have "never looked back since" you changed to the boxing in method, does this not imply there is an advantage you have seen in the quality of your models, what is that?

As for "also the way all of the "idiots" that wrote the dental literature which teaches our dental students" (That's a quote of you, I don't wish to insult any one) do you still do every thing you were taught while learning your craft, with out questioning it. May be time to take a slightly more scientific approach to dentistry and question your methods a little, m.

Learn to read and comprehend and get on to the same page as the rest of us tiger.popcorn

Whatever you say buddy!

 

[hydent]

ouch.... you guys are really letting the fur fly. I for one do not find so much a superiority of one over the other- as long as the technique is strong.

I don't get my panties all twisted when anyone says boxing is idiot proof, because, well, I can be a real idiot on the right day.
So my rationale:

I don't suspend and then base because if you get busy doing something else and it completely sets, then (even if you have retention and soak it),you risk the base de-laminating. This usually happens during devesting from the flask, and the remount to equilibrate becomes a real bitch. As it seems to happen when I'm busy, the solution for me was to stop making my own life unpredictable.

I gave up on the immediate invert onto a patty. because, if you have limited counter space to work with (AND mine's a stainless steel table),then, in order to avoid vibration, ALL workflow has to stop there until the bases are set. So when you're up to the eyeballs...

I box with a magnetic strip because beading with wax rope and boxing with sheet wax is an exercise in inventing new profanities.
Plus when they get wet or the weight of the stone hits it all, then the limitations of my ability are glaringly evident in the form of all that stone going everywhere.
Did I mention being busy?

I use the plaster/ pumice mix instead of alginate because I can pour it when I get back to it.
Did I mention busy?

I'm maybe as smart as the next guy, but when I'm busy, those few brain cells get spread out multi-tasking, and the end result is several idiots working on several jobs at once.
So I need a little idiotproof.
I prefer to go home at night and have that first cold one be a refreshing end to a good day, not an attempt to avoid sticking the proverbial gun in my mouth.

Just this idiot's opinion....

lol I wish I could be a good sport about being an idiot Ken I just want to knock the sh!t out of people when I'm called names.