Who mills Ti bars from 3shape?

[DMC]

one more question on sum3d, do they support milling zironia bars?

absolutly.

Most certianly a solution for specific milling of Ti bars.

You would have to choose what tools you have or can get your hands on to fit your mill...then have at it!

CIMSystem Dental Solutions

 

[arnie16403]

No we don't currently polish bars, if their is a demand for us to do this we would get into it, we are charging $550 for bars, we don't change price for number of implants.

 

[Gav]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post. We use the nobel forte scanner for the implant positions and the bar is done with 3Shape. At the end they are meshed together. Best of both worlds.

 

[RileyS]

Arnie,
Can you tell me what I need on my end? (parts for scanning and rx set up)
I'll discuss your stuff with the powers that be here and see what the feel is.
Thanks
Any others? Scott (***)?

 

[RileyS]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post. We use the nobel forte scanner for the implant positions and the bar is done with 3Shape. At the end they are meshed together. Best of both worlds.

Welcome home Gav,
That seems a bit time consuming with the waiting for each part to come in right? If I'm thinking this right, you design abuts and Nobel sends them back then you scan those with 3shape as a bar, get it back and weld the two?

 

[Gav]

No, you start the nobel scan process but don't finish it after the implant positions. You then export the file.
That file file is aligned with the 3Shape file at the end with a 3rd party software. You get the precision of a touch probe scanner and the freedom of the 3Sape software.

 

[arnie16403]

Riley

I take you have 3 shape already, what scanner do you have? the 800, We can make just about any type of interface you need for bars, and some abutments. Do you have a library for implants already or are you needing one supplied? If your intereset it will be best to start with a phone call. I haven't come across much that we haven't been able to work through.

 

[Pointcloud]

I think what the customer is looking for is a turnkey solution which is coming.
A D700 is not accurate enough without a touch probe for bars.
The D800 looks to be the one!

With this infomation and ability no centre in North America has provided the ability to:
accept 3Shape bar design files
complete a final accurate product
reproduce this offering with consistency and speed

Why?
biocad/nobel has the market share - and there is a ton more money to be made in other dental value streams such as crown and bridge. It takes a lrge captial investment, the right people and serious r and d to get to an offering like nobel at that price point. This is why nobel still sells scanners.

 

[shane williams]

I know I'm posting to an old thread but if your still looking for a place to send for milled bars, I've been in communication with Precision Milling in Utah, and have been told they accept stl files for bars. From d700 or d800 3Shape scanners. Also sometime in the spring/summer Cad-Blu will be offering them too.

 

[Labwa]

Gav, how do you do your part scan with the forte then finish with 3shape?
That sounds interesting

 

[Gav]

You start the process on the forte scanner using the locators and export the file once you have the implant positions. You don't need to go through the part where the touch probe scans the bar.
We design the bar with the 3shape scanner from start to finish and send the two files to our milling centre who mesh them together. I think they use rhinoceros.
Hope this helps.

 

[Vazone]

No we don't currently polish bars, if their is a demand for us to do this we would get into it, we are charging $550 for bars, we don't change price for number of implants.

550$ popcorn here in Ukraine we have price 150 E for mill bar it even twice cheaper with UPS Express. and i think faster.
So you can send it to us

 

[paulg100]

Please post a link to your website Vazone, we can take a look.

 

[Vazone]

Please post a link to your website Vazone, we can take a look.

My website is still on russian, in few weeks it be on english and i'll post a link but main i can write here. Price for mill Ti from file is 15 Eur unit, near 20usd. We mill on 5 axis imes-icore 550i unit.
Ti bar from file is 80-150 eur (100-200 usd)

 

[PCDL]

You start the process on the forte scanner using the locators and export the file once you have the implant positions. You don't need to go through the part where the touch probe scans the bar.
We design the bar with the 3shape scanner from start to finish and send the two files to our milling centre who mesh them together. I think they use rhinoceros.
Hope this helps.

Gav, I have been waiting on something similar to this with 3i's bars. I have a Forte and D710 and would love to try this.

My understanding so far is that most optical scanners don't have the accuracy that the touch scanners do, hence Biocad and 3i still use Renishaw touch scanners to scan the analogs in the cast.

Who are you working with to get these scans integrated? Im itching to give this a try, as I do plenty of bars...

 

[JohnWilson]

Gav, I have been waiting on something similar to this with 3i's bars. I have a Forte and D710 and would love to try this.

My understanding so far is that most optical scanners don't have the accuracy that the touch scanners do, hence Biocad and 3i still use Renishaw touch scanners to scan the analogs in the cast.
Who are you working with to get these scans integrated? Im itching to give this a try, as I do plenty of bars...

Not sure about this fact, I do a bunch of bars with Nobels optical scanner and the thing is bang on perfect on fits. Not once have I had a bar that didn't fit like a glove.

While I have talked to the guys up in Quebec about there scanners they were not forthcoming on what they were using but it was definitely not something that fit on a desk from the sound of it.

While Renishaw and 3i are looking to bring life back to the forte I think the future of touch scanning is all but gone away.

The new 3shape 810 I have coming will also allow me the precision I need for such appliances, it will be interesting to see how it compares to the Nobel unit for bars/abutments.

 

[PCDL]

Hi John- in dental, I would agree... but for metrology in general, touch scanning is still the gold standard... Conversations I have had with people doing R&D in the bar area told me they are getting accurate results (microscope verified) about 80% of the time with optical scanners (3Shape 700 and earlier models). Good, not great...

As far as the Forte, its a great scanner for what it is.. Mine was checked out by the Renishaw guys, and since buying in 2004 I have a shade over 12,000 scans on the unit without any hiccups. If this 3Shape/Forte pairing works well, you may see a nice secondary market come up on used forte scanners, which can be had on the cheap right now. If I can make this work, Ill sure be happier than having to plunk down for a new D800.

 

[YMS96]

Until there is an open abutment kit for 3shap, bars and abutments aren't going to be possible. The only people I know of doing bars (that aren't locked to a milling center) are those that custom create their own interface/abutment libraries. The 800 series from 3Shape supposedly has the resolution to do bars but you can't really do them unless you want to lock yourself into a place like Glidewell.

 

[neila]

Not sure about this fact, I do a bunch of bars with Nobels optical scanner and the thing is bang on perfect on fits. Not once have I had a bar that didn't fit like a glove.

While I have talked to the guys up in Quebec about there scanners they were not forthcoming on what they were using but it was definitely not something that fit on a desk from the sound of it.

While Renishaw and 3i are looking to bring life back to the forte I think the future of touch scanning is all but gone away.

The new 3shape 810 I have coming will also allow me the precision I need for such appliances, it will be interesting to see how it compares to the Nobel unit for bars/abutments.

John we do the same with the Nobel optical scanner and bars and have only had 1 issue with a bar not fitting. It was a hybrid so we cut and laser welded it and it worked out great.
I have been to the facility in Quebec a couple of times and have seen the scanners that they use. They are BIG and were made especially for Biocad when they started out. The accuracy is from those and the detail would be hard to match with a desktop scanner. We still have to send some cases to them to scan when it is not a Nobel platform or even when it is and the angulation does not allow the Nobel(Optimed) scanner to capture the data.
Neil

 

[Gav]

I'm going on memory here but the D700 has an accuracy of 20 microns and the forte is 5 microns. The new D800 is 15 I think.
As far as I know the big companies all use the same method as us for bars when you send a model, touch scan for the positions and 3Shape for the CAD part.
We are in Italy and are exclusive dealers for our milling centre. The accuracy of the bars is top notch. Anyone wanting to send files can PM me if needed.