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    Waxing over metal coping

    Discussion in 'All Porcelain-Press' started by Carnassial Kate, Jul 5, 2017.

    1. Carnassial Kate
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      Carnassial Kate Member Full Member

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      Hello!

      Another question for the group.

      I am having some issues with my margins on my press to metal, which I believe are due to my technique. On 360 porcelain butt margins, I am finding that the wax does not want to go all the way to the edge of the coping when waxing up over the coping. This leads me to have to take the restoration off, melt the wax at the edge of the coping, then redo the margins, which then sometimes the wax seems to retract again. It takes me forever to get the margins this way. Any suggestions, or ideas on what I am doing wrong?

      Thanks so much.

      cross posted in metal (in case it's something to do with the metal coping)
       
    2. Contraluz

      Contraluz Active Member Full Member

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      Try the 'implant telescopic crown wax' from Hi-Tech Wax. They have another for 'implant, gold cylinder and abutment'

      M
       
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    3. user name
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      user name Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      Just apply some pressure with your finger after you've applied the wax.

      The hotter you get it, the more shrinkage and pull-away youll get.
       
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    4. Gru
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      Gru Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Or wax your margin area first, flowing wax onto lubed die and opaqued coping at the same time, then proceed as normal. This is effective for me 90%+ and I have to do little or no touch up.

      User is right: keep your margin was at the lowest workable temp as well.
       
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    5. sidesh0wb0b
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      sidesh0wb0b Well-Known Member Full Member

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      1. dont use a sculpting or carving wax. they shrink MUCH more than harder, more stable waxes. you can use something like the above mentioned telescope wax, or a relatively decent "margin" wax will do the trick. dirt cheap and shouldnt shrink back away from the margin. props @Contraluz
      2. always wax margins on first, do any adjustments, then wax the rest of the crown. heck, i overextend the margin, continue waxing the crown, then go back and trim up a bit of the excess after the crown is complete. props @Gru
       
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    6. Gru
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      Gru Well-Known Member Full Member

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      I use Renfert margin wax, and SSB is dead on with overwaxing the margins, leaving them until the last thing to clean up.
       
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    7. ps2thtec
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      ps2thtec Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      I worked at an "in house" office lab many moons ago and the Prosthodontist and I did our own "unscientific" study when waxing and concluded that after dipping the die, remove the wax and dip again. Do not relube.
      Wax seemed better adapted to the die. Idea
       
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    8. Carnassial Kate
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      Carnassial Kate Member Full Member

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      Awesomesauce. I betcha it's the temp of my waxing instrument; I'm keeping it way too high. <shame on me> Thank you all for your suggestions. I'm using the HiTech Margin Wax, and I like it, and it comes so highly recommended. :)

      I appreciate you taking the time to help me figure things out. I really wish I had another lab tech in the lab with me some days. :(

      Hope everyone's 4th was lovely.
       
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    9. CatamountRob
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      CatamountRob Banned Member Full Member

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      Double dipping?
       
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    10. Contraluz

      Contraluz Active Member Full Member

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    11. JMN
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      JMN Christian Member Donator Full Member

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      Over years of waxing/metal finishing I concur that I found the same, and would remove and re-dip on all implant crowns especially. This was using IsoLit.
      My amazing Mrs. loved how it bleached my pants in dots if I wasn't paying attention.
       
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    12. millennium

      millennium Member Full Member

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      I use a small hair dryer to warm up the die or an abutment. That helps to keep the temperature of the stone and metal closer to the temperature of the wax applied, and minimizes the wax shrinkage. Wax also adheres better to a warmer surface. At least for me.:)
       
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    13. SiKBOY

      SiKBOY Active Member Full Member

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      I used to dip in the hottie and when I did, I would sit the dies on the metal edge of the hottie to warm them up before dipping. If you don't you will find the wax will pull/shrink from the margin. Not only that. It will also pull up from the occlusal surface. You thin out the wax to minimal casting thickness, cast it, fit it, then grind down to 0.2-0.3mm go and check the bite and swear that you had more occlusal room when you first started to wax... There is probably 0.3mm of "die spacer" between the metal and prep because of the wax shrinkage.
       
    14. Car 54
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      Car 54 Well-Known Member Donator Full Member

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      I've also found to try to get enough wax on the tip to go all the way around in one pass, then hold it down as you said,
      helps keep the margin tighter, than adding 2-3 times around the margin where I tended to get more lifting doing it that way.

      Having a scanner and mill has really been nice in resolving this issue, especially with the emax and coping wax ups on metal implant abutments.
       
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    15. sidesh0wb0b
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      sidesh0wb0b Well-Known Member Full Member

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      keep in mind everyone, she posted about press over metal waxing. dipping isn't really practical over the coping.
       
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    16. Gru
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      Gru Well-Known Member Full Member

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      Sorry to disagree, SSB, but I often seal the margin as described above, then dip the die w/ coping as you would a normal die except at a higher temp and no lube on the coping. My dip allows for quick reference of minimal thickness and my full contour wax is fast. Easy, fast, done.
       
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    17. sidesh0wb0b
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      sidesh0wb0b Well-Known Member Full Member

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      i suppose with waxing the margin first that would work. my assumption was based upon just dipping without waxing the porc butt margin first.
      more power to ya if it works for you though. i have never tried it that way, but youre correct it would help with ensuring min thickness in those tight occlusal areas.
      do you have to reseal the margin to the dip wax on the butt areas? (yes i said butt)
       
    18. Bumfrey
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      Bumfrey Active Member Full Member

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      I like the above advice. Might well change my technique. I myself dip the dies and wait ( 5-10 mins) for the wax to shrink away from margin. Then i run inlay wax into the margin area. Takes a little work, but i get good margins. Love the hairdryer idea :D.
       

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