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Shade help

Discussion in 'Fixed' started by JohnWilson, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. JohnWilson

    JohnWilson Moderator Staff Member

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    I received a case in with a shade from Lumineer shade guide it is "I" I sure wish the Dr sent the guide but he did not have one. Patient told this Dr that the prior office used this guide.

    Its a really white shade from the pictures but I would like confirmation to what OM shade it best hits.

    Thanks
  2. TheLabGuy

    TheLabGuy Just a Member

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    It's a Denstply shade, but the problem is they had 8 shades of "i". i-1 to i-8. It's Dentsply's attempt at a bleaching shade guide.
  3. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    John, as Rob said its a Dentsply "illumine" cercon ceram shade I1-I8. I1 being the darkest and lighter than B1, I8 being the lighest and approaches blue!!!!!
    Provide an "I" numerical value and I convert it for you.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  4. Mark Jackson

    Mark Jackson New Member

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    Screw the patients memory. Just ask them to give you a new shade using whatever guide they have. I smell a remake.
  5. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    Mark, if the shade value is in the high end ie: I5- I8 to the best of my knowledge there is no other shade tab that'll come close. Vita has 3 bleached shades, Ivoclar has 4. With an illumine shade you'll find that you'd have to use un shaded Zr cores to match the shade guide. There is also a possibility that the shade is from another shade system.
  6. JohnWilson

    JohnWilson Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks guys I misread the email it does say i-1 but it most certainly looks lighter than B1

    What cha think, aside from the ugly other restorations :)?

    ai215.photobucket.com_albums_cc285_Ziconia_I1.jpg
    ai215.photobucket.com_albums_cc285_Ziconia_I1.jpg
  7. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    John, its def a higher value than B1. I'll post a pic later when I get to the office.
  8. Mark Jackson

    Mark Jackson New Member

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    I get it. I'm just saying, I never trust a patient telling what shade to use to match other restorations, because, as we know, even if the prescribed shade was used, that may not be what ended up in their mouth, and discolored resin etc, can change that shade, or change it over time.

    I always prefer a shade taken right there, right now, off what is actually in the mouth.
  9. TheLabGuy

    TheLabGuy Just a Member

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    No incisal material was used on those pearl's.
  10. al6spap

    al6spap Member

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    Sorry for the irrelevant comment....but thats a really ugly-unnatural restoration! I really cant understand what people(patients) like from these dead-white restorations...
  11. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    Glad to see you back and swinging. I was just a futile attempt to explain that the doc probably doesnt have any thing close, there arent any other guides like it.
  12. paulg100

    paulg100 Active Member

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    If i didnt know better id say they were CEREC crowns milled in a dentine block with no cut back or staining..yuk.

    maybe this is what the patient wanted, you get some loons around :loco:
  13. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    Here are the photos as promised.

    [​IMG]
    B1 vs I1 color

    [​IMG]
    B1 vs I1 BW


    [​IMG]
    B1 vs I1.2 Color

    [​IMG]
    B1 vs I1.2 BW

    [​IMG]
    illumine Guide

    [​IMG]
    B1 vs I1 and Guide

    [​IMG]
    B1 vs I8 and Guide

    [​IMG]
    OM3 vs I1

    [​IMG]
    OM# vs I1 BW

    Looks like the shade has to be between 1M1 and OM3, but I dont have on my glass eyes today.

    @Rob,,,,DITTO!!!! that, and behind it a chalk white coping.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  14. lcmlabforum

    lcmlabforum Member

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    Any one around there have a Dentsply BL2? I understand that is a popular bleach
    shade, but the problem still remains what ceramics to stack to create that
    same effect.
    LCM
  15. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    Is it a Dentsply BL2 or a PW2, which is their Portrait White; Hollywood White. Or is it a composite shade? They probably offer it in their new IC kits
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2011
  16. JohnWilson

    JohnWilson Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks Troy for the time you spend putting that together it will help a ton. I searched the wreckage I call the storage room and actually found this guide that I must of picked up at lab day. Anyhow you are dead on balls right its lighter than 1M1 but darker than 0M3. Now the bigger problem making it look as dead as the other crap in the mouth, and Oh yeah,make it emerge from the defect in the arch with out making it look to over contoured :)

    FUN FUN FUN
  17. dmonwaxa

    dmonwaxa Moderator

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    John, its always a pleasure to help out, especially when its someone like you. Like you said fun, Fun, FUN! Been there done that. I find it hard to believe people spend good money to look like that. I'd use a white core and very little incisal.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  18. Bobby Orr ceramics

    Bobby Orr ceramics Member

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    American Standard ...... chisel a chunk out of the urinal and it'll be bang on!!

    however, i find that those previous photos entered into Photoshop and hit 'desaturate' with convert it to black and white. crop a section to layer onto other guides to give you the closest value of white shade. This technique has bailed me out several times. Like Mark said.....never take the patient's word for shade.

    Good Luck !!!
  19. disturbed

    disturbed Disturbing Member

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    no way to ever know without a shade tab in the pic for a reference...
  20. EJADA
    Amused

    EJADA Member

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    Can anyone post a few comparison pics of the i1 guide? maybe to the ivoclar BL1-BL4.

    I just got an i1 shade in and need some sort of reference.

    John was the anterior photo you posted an i1?

    Thanks

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