New Desktop 3D Printer. Projet 1200 from 3D Systems.

[GoldRunner]

Bob, did you get to play with the 1200? We need one ASAP!

 

[BobCDT]

No, it didn't come in. I'll check on it Monday and get back to you.

 

[Yellowstone]

Ingram Micro will be distributing and marketing 3D Systems 3D printers

Link to article:

http://www.3ders.org//articles/2014...chnology-distributor-to-sell-3d-printers.html

 

[primus]

3d systems projet 1200 build area is only 43 x 27 (1.69 x 1.06 inches) Two postage stamps? LOL

so maybe six teeth at a time? Never will able to print a model, or a large bridge, or a partial frame.

. I feel sorry for anyone who gets suckered into this little thing....even at the low price it is, I think it is just not the right machine.

 

[BobCDT]

As I understand it the Projet 1200 will print about 12 units every 70 minutes. To print a full arch you simply design in two pieces, split the case in the midline. After printing connect the midline on the model with wax.
Most existing wax printers are capable of printing several hundred units a day. This capacity is way more than the average lab needs. 3D systems developed the 1200 for the average smaller lab. In addition many of the existing printers were priced in the $80K range. Again, not for you average lab. The 1200 will be sold for just $5K. This will have a favorable ROI with low production levels.
I do agree with Scott. This printer is probably not for everyone.

 

[Cbite Dental Products]

3d systems projet 1200 build area is only 43 x 27 (1.69 x 1.06 inches) Two postage stamps? LOL

so maybe six teeth at a time? Never will able to print a model, or a large bridge, or a partial frame.

. I feel sorry for anyone who gets suckered into this little thing....even at the low price it is, I think it is just not the right machine.

So, is the Asiga the printer you recommend? Because it is more economical and has a higher resolution?

 

[primus]

https://www.asiga.com/products/printers/pro/

This Pro model has 96 x 54mm build area.... 96x54=5184 sq mm area

3d systems 1200 43x27=1161 sq mm.

Price is also 5x higher, but you can now print everything...

 

[primus]

I have no intention of ever buying either One.

Just throwing out some info.

I like my bigger ProJets...

 

[GoldRunner]

If you can print 12 units in 70 minutes, compared to milling only 6 units per hour, I would rather have this small printer run 2 or 3 cycles a day (about 30 units),and keep my milling machine open for zirconia. Short cycle time is everything. This could double our capacity and reduce our in lab production time. If you need 6 or less units, then mill them. If you need 7 units or more, then print them.

A larger printer has a longer cycle time preventing you from working on units. This is very inefficient and contrary to lean manufacturing processes. The limiting factor is your longest cycle time. You can't press 30 units at a time, but you could be continuously be printing and pressing small batches all day long. Always much better to print/mill a few units and process, than to do larger batches. Labs that do big batches and then have them wait in the next department are inefficient.

 

[JandBDentalStudio]

I really like the wax we use with our mill, it's from aesthetic press, but if this wax printer is all it's cracked up to be, I may have to seriously consider it! My only question is what the maintenance cost is.

 

[primus]

If you can print 12 units in 70 minutes, compared to milling only 6 units per hour, I would rather have this small printer run 2 or 3 cycles a day (about 30 units),and keep my milling machine open for zirconia. Short cycle time is everything. This could double our capacity and reduce our in lab production time. If you need 6 or less units, then mill them. If you need 7 units or more, then print them.

A larger printer has a longer cycle time preventing you from working on units. This is very inefficient and contrary to lean manufacturing processes. The limiting factor is your longest cycle time. You can't press 30 units at a time, but you could be continuously be printing and pressing small batches all day long. Always much better to print/mill a few units and process, than to do larger batches. Labs that do big batches and then have them wait in the next department are inefficient.

You are just speculating....

Try to beat my prices of 3d printing when you actually own some equipment.

So, where are all these little printers and the happy customers at??

Show me, don't tell me....

 

[gdallc]

You are just speculating....

Try to beat my prices of 3d printing when you actually own some equipment.

So, where are all these little printers and the happy customers at??

Show me, don't tell me....

I have an Asiga Pico. It has done wonders for me as a one man lab. Would I buy a small 3d printer as a larger lab, maybe a lot of them for crowns and small bridges and something larger for printed models. The only issue I have is that the prints seem to be slightly overbuilt so I have to account for that. I am not sure if that is just the Asiga or if that is the nature of the beast with these small printers and the way they build.

 

[DMC]

If you can print 12 units in 70 minutes, compared to milling only 6 units per hour, I would rather have this small printer run 2 or 3 cycles a day (about 30 units),and keep my milling machine open for zirconia. Short cycle time is everything. This could double our capacity and reduce our in lab production time. If you need 6 or less units, then mill them. If you need 7 units or more, then print them.

A larger printer has a longer cycle time preventing you from working on units. This is very inefficient and contrary to lean manufacturing processes. The limiting factor is your longest cycle time. You can't press 30 units at a time, but you could be continuously be printing and pressing small batches all day long. Always much better to print/mill a few units and process, than to do larger batches. Labs that do big batches and then have them wait in the next department are inefficient.

.?

 

[labtek]

This is very inefficient and contrary to lean manufacturing processes. Labs that do big batches and then have them wait in the next department are inefficient.[/quote]

Can you expand your knowledge on Lean manufacturing as it relates to batch size?
i.e. what is the ideal # of units to build up, contour and glaze. (porcelain fused to zirconia)
What is the ideal # of units to scan and design (full zirconia)
What is the ideal # of units to glaze at one time (both materials)

What is the efficient # of units for each department in a lab to do on a daily basis. I am curious as to what the workflow should be with 4 technicians that are crossed trained to do any task in the lab. What would a typical lean manufacturing process dictate fro efficient daily production.

Anyone who knows the answers is welcomed to chime in with your experience

 

[RileyS]

whip mix is the heavy promoter and teacher in Lean manufacturing for dental labs. I always hear work in batches of 5. they have a bunch of reasons why to do it this way. you may be able to find info on YouTube, they have a few vids. also see the website

 

[SamanthaADS]

Our lab follows lean manufacturing. We approached it from the ground up (my husband teaches lean manufacturing for a very large o-ring plant) and Whip mix is a good place to start. However, there's WAY more to it than batch size - if you really want to be lean, you have to take many variables into account - spaghetti diagram your processes, do your time studies and find your bottlenecks. Your bottlenecks may not be the same as our bottlenecks, etc.
In our lab, waxing is one of our bottlenecks - so these small wax printers may be ideal for us. But it may create a bottleneck somewhere else - i.e., the 3shape. So you have to do time and flow studies to see what batch size is ideal for you...
Whip Mix will teach you the basics, but lean manufacturing is a science all in itself - I would suggest starting with Whip Mix, but then learn lean from the manufacturing sector (focusing on lean for job-shops, as that is what we really are.)

Samantha

 

[ProJetter]

So my (personal) statement about this machine (ProJet 1200) (as seen on Euromold in december last year):

- noone from 3ds was able to tell me if the machine is finalized or still in testing phase
- machine parts are made with SLS (ex black) parts, housing looks more worst than Form1 or any other "cheap" machine => accuracy? repeatability?
- noone is / was able to show me a part made with this machine until today (as always from 3ds when releasing a new machine)
- now listen: you need to change the complete mini-vat (resin tray) before starting a new build! This means it doesn't matter how large your current part is, material-cost is always the same! No re-use of half opened trays, no re-use if a print fails etc etc....

here's an 3DS official picture:

 

[labtek]

Our lab follows lean manufacturing. We approached it from the ground up (my husband teaches lean manufacturing for a very large o-ring plant) and Whip mix is a good place to start. However, there's WAY more to it than batch size - if you really want to be lean, you have to take many variables into account - spaghetti diagram your processes, do your time studies and find your bottlenecks. Your bottlenecks may not be the same as our bottlenecks, etc.
In our lab, waxing is one of our bottlenecks - so these small wax printers may be ideal for us. But it may create a bottleneck somewhere else - i.e., the 3shape. So you have to do time and flow studies to see what batch size is ideal for you...
Whip Mix will teach you the basics, but lean manufacturing is a science all in itself - I would suggest starting with Whip Mix, but then learn lean from the manufacturing sector (focusing on lean for job-shops, as that is what we really are.)

Samantha

That 3shape scanner and outsourcing has caused a bottleneck in the porcelain buildup and glaze department. What is the solution for this? I am training my scanning technician on how to glaze full contour zirconias to start with. Is the answer to cross train techs to move from dept. to dept. as the cases stack up in a particular department or should the batch sizes be adjusted so that everyone works in the same departments every day. This is sometime difficult to regulate when one day we will pick up 5 units and the next day maybe 20 units come in. Up and down inflow at the first step is unpredictable on a daily basis.

 

[renato]

After read all comments I did a quick "google" on the topic.

I found two companies selling 3D printer at the 5K range.

http://dwslab.com/
This one seems to have a 10 microns resolution, but I could not find their sales page.

http://oldworldlabs.com/home/product/owl-nano/
They sale under 5K and promises layer resolution of .1 Micron, is that right?

They even have a sample page where you can order and see it
http://oldworldlabs.com/home/faq/

Anyone wanna send them some STL file to see what they are made of?

No international shipping till the next summer though.

 

[renato]

I found this youtube interview with the co-founder of oldwordlabs...

Any thoughts?