New Desktop 3D Printer. Projet 1200 from 3D Systems.

KentPWalton

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Ok what about this printer?
Is .1mm accurate enough for a model?

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20131...s-affordable-ormerod-full-3d-printer-kit.html


IMO I think that accuracy is what you're trying to go for here with a printed model. Heck, the Dr. has a scan of the patient's mouth right? The whole purpose of that is to try to eliminate as many variables as possible like impression technique, stone expansion, etc. If the printer can't give you a more accurate model, then why not just go back to impressions and stone? If the standard is around 20 microns, then printing should be too. That's 100 microns!! What?!?! It's all about the patient. What's best for them. I LOVE printing, but I'm not going to spend any money when you're getting marginal accuracy. I would just wait until they improve the model printing towards the accuracy curve.
 
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BobCDT

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KentPWalton

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.1 mm is NOT accurate enough for anything in crown and bridge. We need to be in the


.03mm or less.


I agree....I was thinking around 20...but close enough for me. Would prefer 20 or less.
 
eyeloveteeth

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I agree....I was thinking around 20...but close enough for me. Would prefer 20 or less.

there are new machines that are capable of that, at good price points, but i don't know if it will ever make it to dental
 
CoolHandLuke

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consider: those of you who have 3shape go to your Add/Remove tool, and use the smallest radius you can get.

that radius is .2mm

pass the tool over your die, see what details are fully encapsulated by it. those details if they exist will be lost in a .1mm print.
 
KentPWalton

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there are new machines that are capable of that, at good price points, but i don't know if it will ever make it to dental


They're model printers out there right now that have 20 micron accuracy? Please elaborate! Available right now in the dental market?
 
CoolHandLuke

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" there are" does not contract to They're
 
rkm rdt

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Ok I agree that 100 microns( .1mm) is not "tolerable" for our accuracy requirements.

However if we are designing from a digital scan then that accuracy will be in our 20 micron range depending on the IOS.

So if our restoration is accurate from the IOS, then do we really need a 20 micron (range) model?

Isn't the model just required for checking the bite and contacts which are also set from the ios?

Would the crown still fit on a .1mm accurate model?
 
eyeloveteeth

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They're model printers out there right now that have 20 micron accuracy? Please elaborate! Available right now in the dental market?
no not available in dental. Not even out for purchase yet. But there were some exciting prototypes being shown at a Jewlery convention I had gotten to goto in Italy a month ago. Also helps that I have some fellow frat brothers that are working specifically with the development of this tech, albeit in different sectors. (GO BEARS!! haha actually WUSTL sports was pretty bad)
 
eyeloveteeth

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Ok I agree that 100 microns( .1mm) is not "tolerable" for our accuracy requirements.

However if we are designing from a digital scan then that accuracy will be in our 20 micron range depending on the IOS.

So if our restoration is accurate from the IOS, then do we really need a 20 micron (range) model?

Isn't the model just required for checking the bite and contacts which are also set from the ios?

Would the crown still fit on a .1mm accurate model?


As in, so the model you print could be .1mm loose OR tight. that is huge for us. or the bite could be 0.1mm high or low - hence why we can't use it.
 
CoolHandLuke

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if you want to check the fit on a die, you'll want an accurate die at least. this is why Cerec docors think their units work wonderfully - because their innaccurate dies and crowns match exactly.
 
rkm rdt

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Ok, so what makes the printer more accurate?

Is it the print head or what?
 
CoolHandLuke

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As in, so the model you print could be .1mm loose OR tight. that is huge for us. or the bite could be 0.1mm high or low - hence why we can't use it.
with some printer software there is options to control the Stepping of giant layers to either follow the spline, under the spline or average of the spline. if we printed all the stuff Under the spline we would always see the die and crown fit together but we would not be able to check the quality of the margin. the bit would never be possible to check, as the layer thickness would always increase the height of a die.
 
CoolHandLuke

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Ok, so what makes the printer more accurate?

Is it the print head or what?

3 things: layer thickness, resolution, and material quality.

if you have a die that is for example 4.55mm tall but a printer only able to layer .1mm at a time, your die will print either 4.5mm or 4.6mm depending how you set up your printer. since most printers are capable of resolving an X or Y measurement to .0125mm its of no concern what width your die is because that will be accurate.

with reprap and makerbot Fused Deposition Modelers the materials squirt out and take a moment to cool. because of this, the material can squirt out of the nozzle and kind of hang over the side of the previous layer, further irritating the problem.

the solution would be to stop slicing horizontally and begin vertical printing but that just creates error in the XY direction instead of Z. contacts start being either really open or too tight.
 
KentPWalton

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They're model printers out there right now that have 20 micron accuracy? Please elaborate!
no not available in dental. Not even out for purchase yet. But there were some exciting prototypes being shown at a Jewlery convention I had gotten to goto in Italy a month ago. Also helps that I have some fellow frat brothers that are working specifically with the development of this tech, albeit in different sectors. (GO BEARS!! haha actually WUSTL sports was pretty bad)


So why are we even talking about it here? It's not relevant to the conversation now. It may could be implemented to dental in the future, but I'm talking about printers currently out on the market.
 
KentPWalton

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" there are" does not contract to They're


God...that reminded me of my mom Luke! She was an English teacher for 38 years. Sorry about the improper use. I'll try to keep my typos down to a minimum for you. Haha.:rolleyes:
 
zero_zero

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Ok, so what makes the printer more accurate?

Is it the print head or what?

These hobby extruders (printheads) are usually 0.2-0.3 mm diameter, so ideally a printed 3d pixel is about that size on the xy coordinate not counting the smudge what sometimes occures. It best works in continuous mode by tracing the outlines, turning the extruder on and off intermittently to get superfine details results in lots of garbage...specially with ABS..
Another thing what affects accuracy is repeatability. ..a given xy coordinate ideally should be on the same vertical in different z's...most of these low cost printers suffer for not being accurate by design...just look at the pics of the 3d printed objects you can clearly see the slight offsets between each layer... Manufacturers often omit this info on the spec sheets...just stating the resolution which is only calculated and very misleading...
Apparently FDM works better with rapid movements...so delta printers tend to be more accurate vs. cartesian setups, because the can change movement directions more easily. ..
 
rkm rdt

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Frig!

You explained that so well I think I understood it.

Thanks 0_0
 

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