Need Help with Translucent Enamel Shade

[charles007]

Any suggestion on my first emax bridge, 8x10. Shade comes very close to matching the enamel only on a C1 shade. No dentin or bleached shade comes close to matching.

 

[JohnWilson]

BruxZir

Actually do you want to do this Mono or cutback? Stump shade?

 

[charles007]

BruxZir... funny...actually John, you could come to matching this translucent/opaque shade using BruZir with grey and white stain. Her teeth look like they are over bleached, right into the ozone. Stump shade was not given, only receive stumps on very dark stumps.
Will cutback and layer the entire facial with enamel. Can't have dentin show through !

 

[amadent]

Any suggestion on my first emax bridge, 8x10. Shade comes very close to matching the enamel only on a C1 shade. No dentin or bleached shade comes close to matching.

any photos - did you see patient or is Dr telling you shade is closest to enamel of a C-1

 

[dmonwaxa]

BruxZir... funny...actually John, you could come to matching this translucent/opaque shade using BruZir with grey and white stain. Her teeth look like they are over bleached, right into the ozone. Stump shade was not given, only receive stumps on very dark stumps.
Will cutback and layer the entire facial with enamel. Can't have dentin show through !

Charles , how about BL3 or BL4, cut back pressed shade the core and then layer the enamel? Or maybe an A1, done the same way.

 

[charles007]

any photos - did you see patient or is Dr telling you shade is closest to enamel of a C-1

I saw the patient on a very cloudy day. Took my large tool bag of assorted shade guides, Ivoclar bleachd guide, Classical aranged in value guide, 3d guide and vita Bleachedguide 3D-Master. All were worthless ! I really needed an assortment of enamel tabs. Shade almost matches the enamel on a C1 guide... maybe slightly more grey.......

 

[charles007]

Charles , how about BL3 or BL4, cut back pressed shade the core and then layer the enamel? Or maybe an A1, done the same way.

Thats what I was thinking, even though BL3-4 doesn't match.

Troy, what would you use for a thin wash before layering with enamel ? or just use the normal glaze for the Wash Firing ?

 

[paulg100]

OK charles, before you go any further you might wanna think twice about getting into Emax bridge work (your talking about lithium disilicate right?)

I just sat a course at IDEA with Oliver Brix and you MUST make sure the connectors are at least 16x16, not eg 14 x 18 or any other combination you think will make up to 16x16.

This is what he was doing and eveyone had failed. As you rarely ever get a case where you can acheive 16x16 minimum i dont think he is not using LD for bridges anymore.

I have done a couple of cantilevers off of Canines ie abutment canine, pontic lateral and made sure the lateral is well clear of occlusion and so far, so good but after hearing what Oliver had to say, ive kind of gone off this idea.

Just a heads up

 

[charles007]

I decided before I bought my emax kit I wouldn't do any bridges, and I haven't so far. Doctor asked for emax on this case and I still have all the plastic bridge connectors that came with my kit !
I'm seriously thinking about using zirconia on this bridge. Just hate to use zirconia on my first anterior bridge with me buying a miller .
Back when I had the inceram system, I decided to not use inceram on molars and bridges, which was a very good decision on my part.

Just made my decision.......will use zirconia on this bridge.........done deal !!! I had one emax to break while seating after almost 2.5 years... would like to keep my remakes to a minimum with all ceramics..

What shade should the frame core color be ?

 

[dmonwaxa]

Thats what I was thinking, even though BL3-4 doesn't match.

Troy, what would you use for a thin wash before layering with enamel ? or just use the normal glaze for the Wash Firing ?

LOL, we are old heads, toolbags and shade guides ; who wudda tunk it?

Glaze liquid, low value wash first. If you have an empress esthetic or dsign impulse shade guide select the desired impulse tab by superimposing it over the shaded core, put some glaze liq or H2O in between, helps with transmission. After the value bake you can still do a wash/sprinkle the regular way with the desired impusle.

 

[paulg100]

just picked up on this Charles but there is absolutely no need to stain frameworks if you use the right technique. (you may already know this)

Thin margins to say .2, use the sprinkle and stain technique and you can get very strong knife edge margins with white zirconia with NO white show through.

Next time i have a case ill post a pic of this, its quite impressive.

Reminds me of when i took a sample case like this out with me recently when i was knocking on doors, all the doc could comment on, was the fact that the zirconia was white inside which is why he didn't like using zirconia (totally ignoring the knife edge margin with no show through!) :frusty:

 

[dmonwaxa]

just picked up on this Charles but there is absolutely no need to stain frameworks if you use the right technique. (you may already know this)

Thin margins to say .2, use the sprinkle and stain technique and you can get very strong knife edge margins with white zirconia with NO white show through.

Next time i have a case ill post a pic of this, its quite impressive.

Reminds me of when i took a sample case like this out with me recently when i was knocking on doors, all the doc could comment on, was the fact that the zirconia was white inside which is why he didn't like using zirconia (totally ignoring the knife edge margin with no show through!) :frusty:

paul, the zr may have been white on the inside insde but and he was brown on the inside,,,whats the difference?

 

[paulg100]

Saves using coloring liquids, saves affecting the strength of the frame (last i read upto 150mpa loss),saves drying the frames out, saves screwing up sintering elements. (Sorry if i misunderstood?)

I have no idea what restorative material that docwas using for any of his work as metal bonded crowns are grey on the inside so he cant of been using metal.

I was so dumb founded by his answer that i really had no reply :stupido: