How many dentures/day?

Jason D

Jason D

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Since what you are talking about is productivity, and that’s something prople come to us to learn, Let me share our methods and take a slightly different approach here:

in our industry it’s impossible to have a “apples to apples“ comparison, because there are no standards of quality and there are no standards of pay. There are people on these forums selling dentures for nearly $500 an arch. There are also people on these forums that would struggle to get more than 150 an arch from their clientele.

Common sense would suggest that the higher-priced denture requires more time and effort because it is attempting to satisfy a more demanding client. On the other hand, the lower-priced denture is such a small profit margin did that person must, by necessity, produce many more of them just to keep the lights on. One of those people may develop very high standards of quality the other very high standards of production.
Unfortunately, it’s not that linear! it is entirely possible that the technician who goes very quickly simply has a better method and produces very good results it is also possible that the person who charges a lot has simply found a market niche where frustrated customers have left other labs and are willing to pay a premium to “just get it right or just get it on time“.

For these reasons I would suggest a different approach: rather than count units and try and compare unit quantities of Lexus next to unit quantities of Kia, why don’t you use a dollar value. A simple metric in a lab of any size, producing at any quality standard, Could be dollars per hour produced, or dollars per day produced. I like to see $700 per-day-per-bench technician in my lab. Now, that number goes up and down each day, and a well-managed department produces more, where as a less experienced manager may have a department that produces less. But it gives me a true “apples to apples” comparison between fixed and removable, comparing simpler tasks with more complex tasks, and making decisions about whether one Technician should do every step of the process versus breaking it down into steps that are repeated by one technician and handed to the next. I would like to see Cana music scale, better work clothes, improve training, and better standardization of quality control improve that number to $900-$1000 per day. that is going to take a lot of effort on everyone’s part to develop like that.

A more direct answer of metrics though:

Labor time per step:
Custom tray. 12 mins
Wax rim. 15 mins
Set teeth. 20 mins
Wax up of try in. 15 mins
Seal down and flask 20 mins
Divest and clean. 5 mins
Finish festoon. 20 mins
Polish. 5 mins

Total time 1 hour 52 mins
Charge for average full denture start to finish
$300
 
kcdt

kcdt

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Since what you are talking about is productivity, and that’s something prople come to us to learn, Let me share our methods and take a slightly different approach here:

in our industry it’s impossible to have a “apples to apples“ comparison, because there are no standards of quality and there are no standards of pay. There are people on these forums selling dentures for nearly $500 an arch. There are also people on these forums that would struggle to get more than 150 an arch from their clientele.

Common sense would suggest that the higher-priced denture requires more time and effort because it is attempting to satisfy a more demanding client. On the other hand, the lower-priced denture is such a small profit margin did that person must, by necessity, produce many more of them just to keep the lights on. One of those people may develop very high standards of quality the other very high standards of production.
Unfortunately, it’s not that linear! it is entirely possible that the technician who goes very quickly simply has a better method and produces very good results it is also possible that the person who charges a lot has simply found a market niche where frustrated customers have left other labs and are willing to pay a premium to “just get it right or just get it on time“.

For these reasons I would suggest a different approach: rather than count units and try and compare unit quantities of Lexus next to unit quantities of Kia, why don’t you use a dollar value. A simple metric in a lab of any size, producing at any quality standard, Could be dollars per hour produced, or dollars per day produced. I like to see $700 per-day-per-bench technician in my lab. Now, that number goes up and down each day, and a well-managed department produces more, where as a less experienced manager may have a department that produces less. But it gives me a true “apples to apples” comparison between fixed and removable, comparing simpler tasks with more complex tasks, and making decisions about whether one Technician should do every step of the process versus breaking it down into steps that are repeated by one technician and handed to the next. I would like to see Cana music scale, better work clothes, improve training, and better standardization of quality control improve that number to $900-$1000 per day. that is going to take a lot of effort on everyone’s part to develop like that.

A more direct answer of metrics though:

Labor time per step:
Custom tray. 12 mins
Wax rim. 15 mins
Set teeth. 20 mins
Wax up of try in. 15 mins
Seal down and flask 20 mins
Divest and clean. 5 mins
Finish festoon. 20 mins
Polish. 5 mins

Total time 1 hour 52 mins
Charge for average full denture start to finish
$300
And that $300/arch was a published average price 10 years ago.
Not even keeping up with COL
 
D

Denture Dude

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At my price point, with just one guy doing everything (me),I need to push 35 units per month to ‘make a living.’
 
D

Denture Dude

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I would say from impression to bagging, starting at 9:00am, one technician could pour,setup,invest,pack,heat cure,finish and polish one denture by 4:00pm. Pour technique could reduce this time. A tight VDO immediate could extend it. Setup with Premium teeth, Occlusal curves, Standard heat cure. You could run more cases with it, but will affect progress. Of course you could use "tricks" to shorten this time, but I'm estimating with standard techniques and protocol.
Most of the time is waisted waiting for gypsum to dry, wax to cool, acrylic to dough, and cure time. If you could have them ready for flask by 900:am, then you could probably do 5-8 by 4:00pm. Using pour technique, maybe you could do 30. Depends if you fix all the air bubbles, voids, or tooth slips....LOL


30 units a day from one tech? Pour technique doesn’t save that much time
 
rkm rdt

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And that $300/arch was a published average price 10 years ago.
Not even keeping up with COL
$ 603.46 +teeth/ arch ( includes rims )
 
JMN

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30 units a day from one tech? Pour technique doesn’t save that much time
It was 2 techs, one doing trays, rims, models, the other doing all the rest.
Low end denture mill. Dr in front, techs in back.
 
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2 techs ( 1 does setups and finishes, repairs, night guards, essix's you name it, the other does all stone work, bite blocks/custom trays/relines + polishes) + 1 driver =
700 complete dents + 350 partials/year. All full dents packed with Luci ( Artic teeth) all partials/relines/flippers etc pour processed, frames outsourced. Average denture sells for little above $150. Good product, little stress work enviroment...
 
JMN

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Anyone else noticing a decided lack of information from the digital denture crowd?

Wonder if that's from lack of people it works for or lack of people that will post. Either way, I expected at least one to say they were printing / milling. Very interesting.
 
Jason D

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Anyone else noticing a decided lack of information from the digital denture crowd?

Wonder if that's from lack of people it works for or lack of people that will post. Either way, I expected at least one to say they were printing / milling. Very interesting.
That’s because the variability in the digital workflow is many times more dramatic than the variability in the physical work flow… It depends who’s model of production you subscribe to and which brand of stuff you’re buying and which steps your digitizing… Right now a digital workflow cost more than an analog workflow. And most of the people attempting it have no idea how to calculate the cost of software licenses and shared utilities like 3-D printers properly.
 
mshiss

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I work solo in the lab Mon-Thursday. I do every step myself everday. Hand pack and inject Ivobase. I did 80 units in January and felt like I could do more
 
sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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I work solo in the lab Mon-Thursday. I do every step myself everday. Hand pack and inject Ivobase. I did 80 units in January and felt like I could do more
seems reasonable. my solo denture tech cranked about 100 units out in jan, maybe slightly less. hes not super efficient at it yet either (only because of experience).
that being said, he worked most fridays as well as m-th 10hr days. we be busy
 
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And if it's a partial, you have to get a duplicate model to process on so you can seat and return on the master model.
Here we go again.... why the cma game..... use the most accurate representation of the mouth whenever possible and seat to the dup. (You can't tell me a partial bead line on a dupe comes through 100% clean. If it has a bubble in it that you miss wasting time looking over your frame is now propped up for process... ) Oh. you say you want to return it on Dr's. model so he can see that it fits? If your dup is all that it will be the same as the master.... riiiight? Lol. "I'll take bad ideas and unnecessary problems for $500 Alex...."
 
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Inna-Hurry

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seems reasonable. my solo denture tech cranked about 100 units out in jan, maybe slightly less. hes not super efficient at it yet either (only because of experience).
that being said, he worked most fridays as well as m-th 10hr days. we be busy
I hope he's making at least $80k a year there Bob....
 
Doris A

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Here we go again.... why the cma game..... use the most accurate representation of the mouth whenever possible and seat to the dup. (You can't tell me a partial bead line on a dupe comes through 100% clean. If it has a bubble in it that you miss wasting time looking over your frame is now propped up for process... ) Oh. you say you want to return it on Dr's. model so he can see that it fits? If your dup is all that it will be the same as the master.... riiiight? Lol. "I'll take bad ideas and unnecessary problems for $500 Alex...."
No, the Dr's want the master back. I also do it for "just in case". A lab I worked at had a new person packing and they accidentally under packed all of the partials, luckily we had the master to get a new duplicate. Why do you always assume cma? More importantly, why are you always SO negative??
 
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sidesh0wb0b

sidesh0wb0b

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I hope he's making at least $80k a year there Bob....
ok pulled the actual numbers so i dont like a complete jerk....
85 total units of work for removable dept last month. this includes simple/complex repairs, bite splints, nightguards, bite blocks, etc.
9 flexible tryins, 7 flex proc/finish, 5 denture tryin, 9 p/f dentures. 5 immediate dentures, 2 immediate flexibles, 3 hard acrylic RPDs, and 1 cast frame RPD complete.
thats 41 of the 85 units accounted for.....rest being repairs, relines, n/g, and generally easier stuff. still $80k/yr?
 
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ok pulled the actual numbers so i dont like a complete jerk....
85 total units of work for removable dept last month. this includes simple/complex repairs, bite splints, nightguards, bite blocks, etc.
9 flexible tryins, 7 flex proc/finish, 5 denture tryin, 9 p/f dentures. 5 immediate dentures, 2 immediate flexibles, 3 hard acrylic RPDs, and 1 cast frame RPD complete.
thats 41 of the 85 units accounted for.....rest being repairs, relines, n/g, and generally easier stuff. still $80k/yr?
AHHHHHHHHhhhhhh.... The mud settles to the bottom.... I misread your reply thinking this person was cranking out 100 just dentures.... from model to polish in a month... Your above scenario is much more standard fare for a month's work and very believable. Thank you sir for the clarification! Not an $80k/year performance--- but should be right?
 
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No, the Dr's want the master back. BS. I also do it for "just in case". A lab I worked at had a new person packing and they accidentally under packed all of the partials, luckily we had the master to get a new duplicate. Why not just use the duplicate to make a new duplicate-- if it's good enough to process on it's good enough to duplicate again.... riiiiight? Lol. If you have remake issues... try processing on the masters. Why do you always assume cma? Because it's true. More importantly, why are you always SO negative?? Because of closed-minded individuals not thinking things through.


Riddle me this? Either model you process on will be destroyed. So-- if your duplicate is good enough for processing on then why the heck wouldn't it be just fine to duplicate again?
I am not being negative--- just trying to understand the reasoning behind EVER processing on a duplicate model when the master is present?!? So far you have no answer.
 

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