Are Pfms Disappearing, and Increasing your Profits ?

[Tom Moore]

Tom i think your analogy using GM is flawed,and i know the comparisons between the UK and the US dint always work but i agree it will take at least a decade probably two! Think how quickly the last twenty years have gone!

After school I started in the waxing department waxing full cast and full contour cut backs for acrylic. We stayed covered up and I got a salary of $3.18 per hr.

When I say larger labs I'm not sure the old definitions of how many warm bodies will be the yardstick. I know of labs that have 40% less employees that they did in 08' that are now doing more units and and making better profit margins than they were making then. The problem with large and small doing comparable work is the larger scale lets large buy materials so much cheaper and sell cheaper. As the technology brings the quality levels ever closer together between large and small we will see big changes in the dynamics of lab size and price.

I'm also starting to see more dentists than ever not only group practicing but setting up their own dental insurance companies. They will only work with a lab open 12 month a year with volume abilities and would not do it local and small if the price was the same. The difficulties outnumber the conveyance as the numbers get bigger. I see the lone practitioner declining in numbers and that is the backbone the small lab is built on.

 

[BobCDT]

Bob, is it your opinion then that domestic labs can, with automation produces monolithic crowns at a price competitive with China? I envision a future where our turn times will be as good or better because of shorter delivery distances, but can we hope to compete on price??? What's more, do we want to? And does that truly spell the end of small labs?

I think the combination of automation and material science will likely reduce the impact of offshore imports. From a materials science side, I see more products coming that will have similar workflows to Lava Ultimate. Lava Ultamate, when released will enable labs to produce a finished crown in about 30 minutes. This includes labor and machine time. This not only beats up on offshore but competes well with Cerec.
Again, I don't see the small lab going away. However, the demographics of our industry in the US includes a huge number of lab owner over the age of 55. So, it is likely we will have some consolidation.
Competing on price will be a natural thing. As automation and materials develope labs will and should price product to be fare and profitable. Through automation we now can produce a crown (full FZ) using only 20 minutes of labor. The savings by sending that crown offshore will likely not be enough for offshore labs to differentiate them selfs.
Just my take!
B

 

[cheadlemick]

Its the same in the UK at least 25 techs within a 30 mile radius will retire over the next ten years! The colleges that brought the younger generation have all but closed
yet the dental schools have upped their intake for graduates by about 10 percent! A lot of the first intake are coming through now and know f### all bout dental technology! On the subject of monolithic crowns what do they look like when the dentist preps for a minimal shell all metal crown?

 

[Tom Moore]

Labs need to inform the dentist they are not inside the guidlines for the materials ordered. Then inform them they can override the contra indication for the meterial if they take the responcability. The question from a young dentist is amost always,what do I need to do.

 

[AL1]

Thats good because I have about 2 1/2 years left.

 

[DMC]

I am Metal-free........that is, untill my Metal mill gets installed. LOL

We told all Docs to "take a hike" that do PFMs years ago. Then I told ALL Docs to take a hike when I closed my lab.

Never been happier!

 

[BobCDT]

Hey Scott,
What's the plan for the metal mill?
Are you planning any conventional frames CrCo or Ti?
I assume your home.
Welcome back,
Bob

 

[DMC]

Headed your way in the next few hours!

I hate traveling up North. Too many tolls and traffic and crazy BS with taxi drivers.

Honk-Honk!! all night long..



I am doing the hard stuff first....Abutments and Bars.

Then, we buy more mills for simple copings and substructures.

We will design with ExoCAd of course. I do not think 3shape is the way to go for this application.

Scott

 

[BobCDT]

Scott,
What's your take on lazer sintering for copings. There are a few sources now and the product looks good. I don't think we can compete on price when milling?
B

 

[BobCDT]

I think I probably need to take a closer look at ExoCAD.
Would love to add it to CAP Acadey as well.
B

 

[DMC]

Material costs!!!

That's the secret.

Anyone can find a used SLS laser machine for dirt cheap, but the materials.....oh the materials!

OEM systems will rape you on lasers aqnd comsumables. Many companys retrofit used machines with cheaper/better options for laser system.

Pennsylvania has a small area with many many manufactures of sintered metals. Weird little area that has all that stuff cheap!

I'd start there, and not in the Dental field.

 

[DMC]

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[DMC]

In April 2012, Stratasys and Objet announced their intention to merge, interrupting a planned IPO by the company. This industry-shaking event will vault the combined company up to or past 3D Systems' target revenue for 2012, while widening its technology, customer and distribution bases. The combined company will have dual headquarters in the US and Israel and will be called Stratasys Ltd. The all-stock transaction will give the company a market valuation of approximately $1.4 billion after the merger.



Go visit Isreal for the latest scoop? Maybe they have something?

I'm at home and can't remember many companys I was in contact with years ago on this subject.

So much has changed. All you need is a heated box, some gas, and laser systems with slicing software.

Then go find FDA approved materials. That's what I'd do...

 

[Tom Moore]

are these materials FDA 510K registered?

 

[BobCDT]

Hi
Not 100% sure, but would assume Bego and Argen have FDA approval.
Never sent anything to Argen and did some CrCo lazer samples with Bego.
B

 

[DMC]

Argen won't sell you the material.

I doubt Bego will either.

There was a company at LMT West that WILL sell you the material, but untill there are multiple companies doing this, prices will remain too high to be of any good.

Just my opinion?

 

[BobCDT]

Hey Scott,
I'm not interested in milling or Laser sintering metal copings. Metal copings have become commodotized and are undergoing rapid decline in use. Can't see spending $500K to make a $15 coping for a product that is disappearing.
I was really interested in your direction with metal.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
And, I do value your opinion!
Safe travels,
Bob

 

[DMC]

I need to learn five axis milling of coplex objects. Of course Metal will be a thing of the past one day.

I will focus only on the skills. Still a learning phase for me. Titanium Bars and Abutments will help me break even on the investment of new mill.

It is a gamble. I saw many people loosing BIG bucks in Ca, and I don't want to do the same.

It is a fine line with minimal profit expected....but I want the skills and need something to pay for it while I learn.

 

[reesecuppers]

That's the thing about labs like Glidewell. They don't understand why a dentist would pay $15 more for a crown made by an actual CDT rather than a CPU. I had more response than I could handle when I handed out 12 folders to 12 local dentists with the slogan "Tired of assembly line and factory style dental labs?" There will always be a demand for small labs, even if the product line evolves to something other than PFM's. The simple service of the dentist being able to call the lab and say "whoops! I over-adjusted an interproximal contact! can you add some porcelain/gold back on to it and have it back in an hour?" Pretty sure China won't be able to fix it in an hour. Or Glidewell. And if you say that soon a milled crown won't need any interproximal adjustments cause it will be so incredibly accurate... bleh.

 

[sidesh0wb0b]

There will always be a demand for small labs, even if the product line evolves to something other than PFM's. The simple service of the dentist being able to call the lab and say "whoops! I over-adjusted an interproximal contact! can you add some porcelain/gold back on to it and have it back in an hour?"

thats exactly correct!
i recall seeing so many articles claiming that full cast gold crowns were going to be long gone because of PFMs. that was decades ago. here we are STILL doing FCG crowns, and now people insist that PFMs will be gone. sigh.... im not saying for certain that they will or wont, but i sure am not going to bet that PFMs will retire from the industry before i do hahaha

and the little guys with a niche service laboratory that will hop in the car and be at an office in 10-20 mins will equally be around to battle with Glidewell. there may be fewer, but lets be honest....even some of the big guys have downsized/closed doors.