Anyone familiar with the gnathological technique for set ups?

[dmonwaxa]

After reading all your response I'm thinking I'm not going to spend any time focusing on it. The dr has been very pleased with the dentures he's received, so why change something that is working. Thanks again for all your input still very informative. At least I learned something.

Crap!!!!Crap... Crap!!!!!!!
All of this for nothing? ...

 

[2000markpeters]

I used to use the Gnathomat articulator from Ivoclar. The models were mounted in bilateral symmetry using anatomical landmarks and special mounting jigs. There was then a special wax up jig mounted to upper arch to which the posterior teeth ( Ivoclar teeth) were set giving the proper curve of spee and wilson. Upper posterior teeth just dropped on top. Anteriors places and Bob's your uncle. It was a great system and I still have the articulator. At the time Roland Buechel (great master technician) did lots of research on the technique and wrote quite an extensive paper on it which I cannot place my hands on right at this moment.

 

[dmonwaxa]

I would that in my entire career, I've never seen canine disclusion do anything but destabilize a removable denture.

I also note that for some reason a lot of dentists can't/don't not grasp the different requirement for successful occlusion in removable vs fixed/natural.

Maybe this approach can be incorporated in implant screw retainerd dentures.. aka Hybrids.

 

[JMN]

I used to use the Gnathomat articulator from Ivoclar. The models were mounted in bilateral symmetry using anatomical landmarks and special mounting jigs. There was then a special wax up jig mounted to upper arch to which the posterior teeth ( Ivoclar teeth) were set giving the proper curve of spee and wilson. Upper posterior teeth just dropped on top. Anteriors places and Bob's your uncle. It was a great system and I still have the articulator. At the time Roland Buechel (great master technician) did lots of research on the technique and wrote quite an extensive paper on it which I cannot place my hands on right at this moment.

Awesome system. What happened to it? Seems like that would be a boon in this time of reducing education options for lab techs.

 

[Old School Dentures]

From my understanding this would be done with facebow. My advice is to knock models cleanly of facebow and remount on a regular articulator using the bite established with facebow. Setup as you normally do, then glue models back on facebow and deliver . In my opinion a $1800 articulator doesn't make or break a case, good ol dentistry utilizing proper bite taking and proper denture setting skills do!
Not a fan of Facebow if you can't tell from this post

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TomZ]

 

[charles hallam cdt]

It is a shame. Seems like the more tech advanced we get the more we forget about real technology that got us here

 

[TomZ]

It is a shame. Seems like the more tech advanced we get the more we forget about real technology that got us here

Its only getting worse. Software is doing most of the real thinking...

 

[JMN]

Its only getting worse. Software is doing most of the real thinking...

Good TRON quote. One thing that actually was accurate about our relationship with technology.

Dr. Walter Gibbs: [laughs] You've got to expect some static. After all, computers are just machines; they can't think.
Alan Bradley: Some programs will be thinking soon.
Dr. Walter Gibbs: Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop.

 

[kcdt]

Maybe this approach can be incorporated in implant screw retainerd dentures.. aka Hybrids.

Only issue I have with it is that any anterior contacts in excursive not mediated by posterior group function will eventually fracture anterior teeth. See it all the time

 

[kcdt]

It is a shame. Seems like the more tech advanced we get the more we forget about real technology that got us here

Word

 

[kcdt]

Its only getting worse. Software is doing most of the real thinking...

Yep. Seems like they are losing analog know how to the gadgets, and machine doesn't possess hardcwon experience.

 

[kcdt]

From my understanding this would be done with facebow. My advice is to knock models cleanly of facebow and remount on a regular articulator using the bite established with facebow. Setup as you normally do, then glue models back on facebow and deliver . In my opinion a $1800 articulator doesn't make or break a case, good ol dentistry utilizing proper bite taking and proper denture setting skills do!
Not a fan of Facebow if you can't tell from this post

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Facebow has its place, but it's no magic bullet, and many operators don't understand what it will or won't do

 

[JMN]

Facebow has its place, but it's no magic bullet, and many operators don't understand what it will or won't do

Nor the difference between using the equipment and executing the technique properly.

 

[kcdt]

One more thought I have about the LVI link.
Something about the whole lining the jaws up made me think of the stuff neuromuscular types use a TENS unit to achieve.
Most of the time the bite is really jacked open and protrusive. Lots of room for porcelain...

Sometimes that flies, sometimes it don't.

I've only met one clinician who seemed to know how to use it well, and he referenced the horizontal to a Coble balancer, so it was apparent he employed TENS to ensure relaxation, but not beyond PRP.

 

[JMN]

http://stuartortonjones.com/coble-balancer/

Decent slide show of the base process.

Seems to be a really laborious way to turn any teeth into 0 deg teeth. From just a cursory look that is.

 

[kcdt]

http://stuartortonjones.com/coble-balancer/

Decent slide show of the base process.

Seems to be a really laborious way to turn any teeth into 0 deg teeth. From just a cursory look that is.

That may be the occlusal scheme or a camera trick.
All they are is a small Gothic arch. The equilibration process is just going from first point of contact to even distribution.
Unless the whole shebang got really screwed in processing, it shouldn't drastically alter the inclination.
It's just to refine CR=CO intraorally.
Like a clinical remount

 

[charles hallam cdt]

http://stuartortonjones.com/coble-balancer/

Decent slide show of the base process.

Seems to be a really laborious way to turn any teeth into 0 deg teeth. From just a cursory look that is.

That's it!! That is very similar to what I saw. It was definatly a homemade version tho.

 

[JMN]

That's it!! That is very similar to what I saw. It was definatly a homemade version tho.

Glad you got an answer. It's really amazing that the terminology is so fluid for so much of this science.

 

[charles hallam cdt]

Glad you got an answer. It's really amazing that the terminology is so fluid for so much of this science.

Thank you guys for all your help!!