Affordable complete CAM set

[Jack_the_dentureman]

Hello!
More and more manufacturers are proposing not expensive Cad/Cam equipments.
We have a large selection of small milling machines at various prices. There are now more sintering oven, dedicated and compressors
I have set up this topic to discuss affordable complete sets in it

Here on the forum, there is a lot of information about machines, ovens, computers, and compressors, but not in one place. Not as complete sets, only discussed separately , so you can overlook the limitations, incompatibility or overpayment.

For example, I plan to buy such a kit, which I found to be good for a small lab that just got started

VHF K5 + Mihm Vogt Tabeo + Renfert Silent compactCAM + Ekom-Air DK50 2V/50 compressor + PC with some i5 and 4 Gb Ram

The price for the set is about 34K EUR.

I think this is good kit for some small production labs for zirconia and all that plastic/wax then cast/press

What do you guys think? Change or buy something more ?

 

[JMN]

Hello!
More and more manufacturers are proposing not expensive Cad/Cam equipments.
We have a large selection of small milling machines at various prices. There are now more sintering oven, dedicated and compressors
I have set up this topic to discuss affordable complete sets in it

Here on the forum, there is a lot of information about machines, ovens, computers, and compressors, but not in one place. Not as complete sets, only discussed separately , so you can overlook the limitations, incompatibility or overpayment.

For example, I plan to buy such a kit, which I found to be good for a small lab that just got started

VHF K5 + Mihm Vogt Tabeo + Renfert Silent compactCAM + Ekom-Air DK50 2V/50 compressor + PC with some i5 and 4 Gb Ram

The price for the set is about 34K EUR.

I think this is good kit for some small production labs for zirconia and all that plastic/wax then cast/press

What do you guys think? Change or buy something more ?

Haven't there been lots of support issues with the vhf mills in the US? Is that better over there?

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

Haven't there been lots of support issues with the vhf mills in the US? Is that better over there?

Dunno I live next to the Germans

 

[cadfan]

than try to call them and ask, how support works . haha i live there very funny company ok if you buy a second for back up or you have 4-5 weeks time haha hope your reseller is allowed to repair everything dont think so . OK i tell you mill goes to reseller via palette try to repair if not goes to V... repair if they have time 2-3 weeks than back to your reseller and from there to you repair cost the same as your lost production so good luck.
mill 23, tabeo 4.5,silent 1.5,kompressor ? pc is inkl. so a bit math

 

[Sevan P]

Haven't there been lots of support issues with the vhf mills in the US? Is that better over there?

That's cause there are only three distributors, cad blu, schein and talladium. Of which cad blu is useless. Jadon at talladium knows the mills inside out. I have two vhf mills. K4 and s1. Support in Europe and Germany is better then the US. The newest k5 and k4 are solid mills. No more electric touch off plates all the new mills have mechanical touch off, so no more crashing issues.

I had a lot of issue with the k4 I got from cad blu. But the k4 I got from talladium was rock solid. Ended up trading the cad blu in for a s1.



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[Jack_the_dentureman]

than try to call them and ask, how support works . haha i live there very funny company ok if you buy a second for back up or you have 4-5 weeks time haha hope your reseller is allowed to repair everything dont think so . OK i tell you mill goes to reseller via palette try to repair if not goes to V... repair if they have time 2-3 weeks than back to your reseller and from there to you repair cost the same as your lost production so good luck.
mill 23, tabeo 4.5,silent 1.5,kompressor ? pc is inkl. so a bit math

How should this repair look like? When it comes to other resellers of Imes, Yenadent, Zirkonzahn ect nobody said that it has full repair service.
Need to know more about repairs, but i know if my machine will go to repair, a reseller will mill my works for me.

Some sellers do not include the pc to vhf milling machines.

mill k5 is 25k eur inc Vat. Do you think it should be cheaper?

 

[cadfan]

The questions is can i call the manufacturer try it with VHF ask if you can make a training for repair and so on. very simple simple constructed no rocket science ask how long cnc controller repair lasts repair not change for 3 bucks repair 200 Euro ask why you cant buy their harmonic drive at the free market for 800 Euro as normal why you have to pay 1.6 and not avialible from others because they bought only the inside parts and made the housing by their own and so on and on. Ask why their sub company who makes the cnc controllers cant be contacted direct ask why they have fear to talk with customers .....................................................................................................................................................

 

[mptz]

All true but I been using it without problems I am not sure they changed their ways since earlier models. but I know Cadfan has super knowledge and I trust everything he says. I can say so far so good except don't contact VHF direct they are bull****. The cam is super simple also and for most jobs more than adequate.

 

[rookiee]

Hello!
More and more manufacturers are proposing not expensive Cad/Cam equipments.
We have a large selection of small milling machines at various prices. There are now more sintering oven, dedicated and compressors
I have set up this topic to discuss affordable complete sets in it

Here on the forum, there is a lot of information about machines, ovens, computers, and compressors, but not in one place. Not as complete sets, only discussed separately , so you can overlook the limitations, incompatibility or overpayment.

For example, I plan to buy such a kit, which I found to be good for a small lab that just got started

VHF K5 + Mihm Vogt Tabeo + Renfert Silent compactCAM + Ekom-Air DK50 2V/50 compressor + PC with some i5 and 4 Gb Ram

The price for the set is about 34K EUR.

I think this is good kit for some small production labs for zirconia and all that plastic/wax then cast/press

What do you guys think? Change or buy something more ?

Price is before TAX? My advice since I'm in the same position is just two ways. Roland or Wieland. In my country I get super great support for Wieland and the package price is almost unbeatable here. Roland package will be a little higher I think but I don't know if I have time to do it, bringing everything together. Oh, Wieland comes with a changer. After extensive research these two are optional, others not because of lack of support, dealrship, blablabla

 

[rookiee]

Oh, and I would go for speed option on sintering furnace (although you might not use it regulary it's nice to now you can do it),Mihm or Nabertherm only options. Not much of a choice on suction, renfert is bit crappy over past years, there's new CAM unit out which is twice more expensive then first one. CAM software Hyperdent would be a choice. Would avoid SUM3d. But as said, would buy myself a kit which is plug and play. After you get familiar with problems and usage next set can be more individual IMHO!

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

Wieland is not produced by VHF? inside look so similar....disc holder

 

[Sevan P]

Wieland is not produced by VHF? inside look so similar....disc holder

They actually are. They just added the rfid scanner and changed the water seals but manufactured by vhf.

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[rookiee]

Wieland is not produced by VHF? inside look so similar....disc holder

It is but I'm refering to a "whole" package. I think Wieland has a great starter package from what I've seen. It's more or less plug&play. With Roland in my location it would be lack of proper support but I know it's a great machine. As I said at the moment Wieland is offering me a great price for the package which is almost unbeatable by the competition. And I have a great support, warranty etc... So for a starter I'm leaning towards wieland package, for second machine would probably give a roland a try. I'm into computers but lack of time worries me and common sense tells me, take package which is "predefined". That would be my 5c. Be careful, seek for support, warranty, replacment machine etc... when something goes wrong you're loosing money every day.

 

[Jack_the_dentureman]

Unfortunately, in my country, the wieland does not have such good deals to compete with the set made by me.
I decided a milling machine and oven.

I have a problem with the selection of extraction unit and compressor.
Renfert does not recommend Renfert Silent compactCAM. They said K5 needs Silent TS.

I know that there is a topic about compressors, but everyone is glorified with huge installations to power 3 mills and the entire lab.
What will be suitable for K5 ?
I was thinking over a 25l tank with 240L/min ? only for milling machine

 

[Sevan P]

Unfortunately, in my country, the wieland does not have such good deals to compete with the set made by me.
I decided a milling machine and oven.

I have a problem with the selection of extraction unit and compressor.
Renfert does not recommend Renfert Silent compactCAM. They said K5 needs Silent TS.

I know that there is a topic about compressors, but everyone is glorified with huge installations to power 3 mills and the entire lab.
What will be suitable for K5 ?
I was thinking over a 25l tank with 240L/min ? only for milling machine

Look into a quatro twin vac, amazing suction unit created just for cad cam. I have a quatro ivac on my mini and it is great, the twin vac is two motors 240cfm of suction, will keep that k5 nice and clean. For the compressor the mill needs 7bar or around 100 to 110psi. I would say if you have the room get a 60gal stand up tank. I don't know what compressors are available in your area, maybe sure some links of what your thinking about.

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[Jack_the_dentureman]

This one ?
http://www.ekom.sk/en/products/dental-compressors/compressors/dental-compressor-dk50-2v50/
Option with membrane dryer ?

There is a local brand, no info in web.
Only info is "can be use in dentistry"
Power 2x580W
efficiency 210l/min
noise 68dB
Maximum pressure 8bar
tank size 50l.

Are you sure i need 60gal ? 240l tank ?

 

[Sevan P]

This one ?
http://www.ekom.sk/en/products/dental-compressors/compressors/dental-compressor-dk50-2v50/
Option with membrane dryer ?

There is a local brand, no info in web.
Only info is "can be use in dentistry"
Power 2x580W
efficiency 210l/min
noise 68dB
Maximum pressure 8bar
tank size 50l.

Are you sure i need 60gal ? 240l tank ?

A few things to keep in mind. Smaller tank equal more run time on the motor more load. Now most compressors are not mention for 100% duty cycle. So running a compressor ment for 60% duty cycle at 100% is not good. A much larger tank will take longer to kick the motor on so the it might not need to run all the time. Also a screw drive compressor is the way to go, fills the tank up much faster the belt driven pumps.

Also the dryer should be fan cooled so the air coming out is nice and cold. Non fan cooled puts out hot air. Put the dryer right before the mill so you get nice dry air at the comoressor. You could get that compressor and then a additional used tank and put the tank under the counter. Like a 120Lit.

Also it doesn't have to be a dental only compressor, unless regulations in your area say so. We run a Atlas Copco GX4FF industrial compressor, before that we ran a ingersolrand stand up 60 gal mechanics garage compressor.

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[Jack_the_dentureman]

Ok. I asked a milling supplier, other milling machine users and even a company dealing with compressed air systems.
The knowledge flowing from it is hopeless, Everyone says something else. One says 100l tank another with 500l.
So I find the recommended compressor from the company Dürr Dental.
Here https://dlc.duerrdental.com/download/Compressed+air/Compressors/Duo+Tandem/2582732.dd
But this one is really expensive.
I decided on GENTILIN CLINIC DRY 3.50 http://www.gentilincompressors.com/en/product/clinic-dry-350
What do you think ?

PS i dont have pleace for bigger compressor and it need to be silent

 

[mptz]

ihave k5 no trouble cam s free and works well I use the renfert cam no problem and I have an old dentist compressor working great for little money the mill so fat the fits are amazing if you want a dry mill you live near meyou can see it working even acute angles it handles

 

[mptz]

only don't upgrade 6.15 or above dog software