3I Encode

[JSnyder85]

We starting providing this service to our drs about a year ago and have had nothing but problems with it. Broken models, design files not being sent as requested, long turn around times? Is anyone else using this?

 

[Adigitalsmile]

We have also had similar problems working with Encode.

 

[JMN]

We starting providing this service to our drs about a year ago and have had nothing but problems with it. Broken models, design files not being sent as requested, long turn around times? Is anyone else using this?

We've done around 85 -100 of them over the last 4 yrs. Only had 1 bad snafu. They switched cases on us and another lab. Of course we finished and delivered the case before that was discovered. Same tooth #.
Since then I've been writing the pt name/id & labs name & phone number on the bottom. No other problems except docs cant figure out why we send them back every time there isn't 1mm of the impression cap.

In the last few months the turn around time has goten way better, less than a week, If we send it Monday we have it by Friday. They also just went to a new box style which seems much sturdier than bubble wrap compression.

Just did/doing 4 the last 2 wks one last week we needed to have a design okayed on our end, they emailed it the day the box was received.

They knew they were having problems. I think they have fixed most of the frequent offenders.

Aside from the *&%$#@ $60 screw...

 

[2thm8kr]

Been using encode with iTero scan for about a year. Only one f-up and that was about scheduling. Other than that they have been spot on, model to oral environment, witnessed with my own ojos.

 

[doug]

There used to be problems with the placement of the replica(Analog) in the model. They would drill the hole, place the replica using the robot, spray cyanoacrylate and accelerator and let go of it. The replica would move ever so slightly and cause hellacious problems at the seat appt. That problem was resolved and we haven't had any issues except with one doc who accepts no responsibility for anything he does. That being said, itero work flow is incredibly simple and accurate.

 

[JMN]

I had forgotten about that. Also they dont break/chip the model anymore on the robocast process. Used to see hairline fractures in the models. Maybe they slowed it down/got different burrs, or maybe we just got better at the modelwork

One thing we have had to deal with, we have a doc who loves trippletrays. For everything. They will not give a warrantee on them, only if it's full arch horseshoes.

 

[Labwa]

Are they placing the analog in the itero model yet? or still the abutment shaped die?

 

[2thm8kr]

Still abutment shaped die.

 

[BobCDT]

We have also had significant problems with this product. Great idea, poor execution. In addition, to the problems mentioned, the product is priced way too high. Most docs would rather take an impression using an impression coping, save the money and reduce the problems and get a case back in a reasonable amount of time. On a more positive note, Biomet 3i does fabricate a nice custom abutment.

 

[eyeloveteeth]

i love the idea, as it takes the stress of needing to provide a fixture level impression -but i still think the process is too complicated.

Anyway - we don't order robocast - and as of now, we've done probably 100+; we've had fair success with it. One case I remember the fins had broken off so the indicators were incorrect, but other than that, nothing major - other than 3i/belletek giving me stress by changing their formats on the work order form like 3 times a year.

 

[JMN]

i love the idea, as it takes the stress of needing to provide a fixture level impression -but i still think the process is too complicated.

Anyway - we don't order robocast - and as of now, we've done probably 100+; we've had fair success with it. One case I remember the fins had broken off so the indicators were incorrect, but other than that, nothing major - other than 3i/belletek giving me stress by changing their formats on the work order form like 3 times a year.

Don't bother updating the form every time. We just printed off 1, filled in the acct # and contact info, then copied it for each case, without that massive black ink sucking stripe at the bottom. I'll check it occasionally to see if there's anything they want different, but they've been good with that so far.
Using the art881 form from the website about 2 yrs ago.

 

[shane williams]

Don't bother updating the form every time. We just printed off 1, filled in the acct # and contact info, then copied it for each case, without that massive black ink sucking stripe at the bottom. I'll check it occasionally to see if there's anything they want different, but they've been good with that so far.
Using the art881 form from the website about 2 yrs ago.

Just fill them out online. Go to the website, save the page under favorites, then all you have to do is type in your account #, and it populates everything else.

We haven't done many of them, and what I've seen are ok. It's just they are so dam expensive. Doc's can get impression copings for less than the robocast. Plus the time it takes to ship, have them place the analog, ship back. I'd rather see a fixture level impression and scan it for a custom abutment. I'm pretty sure to do an Encode abutment it's like $400!! Sorry but I can get ti abutments for a hell of a lot cheaper than that. But I guess to answer the topic I haven't had any problems, other than the price.

 

[JSnyder85]

We have pushin more drs to try and use traditional fixture level impressions and in worst case scenario let us make the abutment, but even with that we have issues, they have had a case of ours since the 10th and now we have to pour up another model and send it to them because they destroyed the first one and when we call and talk to their "technical advisors" it sounds like they have no education what so ever. Its scary! they told us they shaved off a mm of the mesial contact of 17 on a case that was for an open ended 18 lol. there was no 17

 

[kmgold1234]

We have also had significant problems with this product. Great idea, poor execution. In addition, to the problems mentioned, the product is priced way too high. Most docs would rather take an impression using an impression coping, save the money and reduce the problems and get a case back in a reasonable amount of time. On a more positive note, Biomet 3i does fabricate a nice custom abutment.

We will be introducing an entire line of stock 3i Certain components for the US shortly and right now we offer 3i certain analogs and impressions transfers at very reasonable pricing.

All of the library files for 3i certain are available today for free and run in Exocad, DW and 3Shape.
I can send you the link. All products are available in europe currently

 

[PDC]

So I call Biomet to see if I can get a robocast done without the Addesso plate attached to the model. Nope. So now I have to cut this plate off to mount it with my articulator. Just a 1/4 arch model. What a pain! Maybe if all the labs would just charge triple for doing Biomet abutments, then they would start listening to us.

 

[JMN]

So I call Biomet to see if I can get a robocast done without the Addesso plate attached to the model. Nope. So now I have to cut this plate off to mount it with my articulator. Just a 1/4 arch model. What a pain! Maybe if all the labs would just charge triple for doing Biomet abutments, then they would start listening to us.

It was once said that their robot needs that plate for placement and to grip the ring around the bottom, not sure how much I buy that. That and they only want to use one brand of articulator in-house. Still stinks though.

 

[Jason D]

So I call Biomet to see if I can get a robocast done without the Addesso plate attached to the model. Nope. So now I have to cut this plate off to mount it with my articulator. Just a 1/4 arch model. What a pain! Maybe if all the labs would just charge triple for doing Biomet abutments, then they would start listening to us.

We charge significantly more for encode than anything else, it's the only way to keep our profit margin consistent with other implant products.
The result? The local 3i rep goes out to the clinicians and accuses us of 'gouging', says encode abutments shouldn't be any more than atlantis!
When we confronted him about it he denies it but then tell us:
"The lab should not 'upcharge' the abutment, the lab makes money on the crown, and should just pass through the cost of that abutment!"
seriously.
he said that.
out loud.
my only reply was "Sure I will do that when you start not upcharging me on the $5 screw"

 

[PDC]

We charge significantly more for encode than anything else, it's the only way to keep our profit margin consistent with other implant products.
The result? The local 3i rep goes out to the clinicians and accuses us of 'gouging', says encode abutments shouldn't be any more than atlantis!
When we confronted him about it he denies it but then tell us:
"The lab should not 'upcharge' the abutment, the lab makes money on the crown, and should just pass through the cost of that abutment!"
seriously.
he said that.
out loud.
my only reply was "Sure I will do that when you start not upcharging me on the $5 screw"

I don't mind the digital workflow with Itero...don't have to deal with the robocast issues with that. But for the docs that take impressions of the encode, we have to go the robocast route. I am definitely going up on my prices for the extra labor and headaches. You are right...it's us getting "gouged" by having to deal with their rigid and inflexible workflow.

 

[krashd133]

We charge significantly more for encode than anything else, it's the only way to keep our profit margin consistent with other implant products.
The result? The local 3i rep goes out to the clinicians and accuses us of 'gouging', says encode abutments shouldn't be any more than atlantis!
When we confronted him about it he denies it but then tell us:
"The lab should not 'upcharge' the abutment, the lab makes money on the crown, and should just pass through the cost of that abutment!"
seriously.
he said that.
out loud.
my only reply was "Sure I will do that when you start not upcharging me on the $5 screw"

Ask him if he reimburses all fees for the abutment on the remake, or if all your model work or soft tissue model fee should be free also...

 

[dimtsic]

We lost a 35000$/year account when they started making abutments for sirona digital impressions.
They send custom abutment back to dr and cerec dr makes an emax over it.

Lets cut out the middle man mentality!

Anyways good ridance to that type of clientele.

For all othet cases we have problems with delays and broken models + no teal tissue management even with matrix. I strongly recommend to my clients to take imp with analog and make our own custom abutments.