New inLab MC 5-Axis "Open" Mill

[goku_zirconia]

I am having the same problems with my MCX5. It is not a TRUE 5 axis and is requiring a lot of time to finish the restoration by hand. Embrasures, not milled arias bellow or above the sprues on frameworks and so on.
They say that the new software that comes out in September will take care of most of the problems. I will bereave it when it happens.
The mill is very accurate when I mill zirconia cases only. I have not been able to get accurate results in wax. I am talking about the fit. I tried to play with setting but I just cant get it right. I was told that the smallest bur it uses on the inside of the crown is 1mm. We also have 0.5mm but only for outside. I am thinking that this can be the reason for my poor fits in wax.
What do you think?

Well when we first got the machine they said that the new software was coming out in August...it is almost September now. I won't believe what they say until it actually comes out.
Also, we did a test run on a emax block. The results were horrible. They want you to use the grinding method to make an emax restoration, but the smallest burr they have for grinding is a 1.2mm diamond burr. Needless to say, the anatomy didn't come out at all. As for the wax we havent even tried it since the emax test went so bad, my manager doesnt even want to waste the material on testing it out, but it would make sense that the fit would be bad when they use a 1mm burr for the inside. It's very obvious Sirona didn't really think things through with the MCX5 before they made the sale public and part of that I blame on the Beta testers. All of them are in the pockets of Sirona so I have a feeling they didn't really do their testing well, otherwise Sirona might have waited another year or 2 before going public with it. And I keep on hearing from Patterson that Sirona kinda threw the software together from parts of the inLab software. I'm really beginning think the MCX5 is just a huge money grabber for them.

So it sounds like there will be a lot of wasted material? From my three years with sirona mcxl, it was miserable. I'm sure things are better now but I keep seeing the same type of crap happening on the Facebook inlab study group. Sad thing is I've actually started to consider getting back into sirona. (Shame)

Well, I did have to waste a nice chunk of a disc, but know I know what the issues are I've been particularly careful on dealing with the software.



ALSO GUESS WHAT! Something went wrong with the MXC5 AGAIN!
This time around it has to do with..wait for drumroll....AIR PRESSURE!!
So I was in the middle of a mill project when an error message showed up saying the the mill was "timed out, please select continue to restart the mill"...there was no "continue" option, just "Stop". So when I hit stop then next option did show continue but as soon as I pressed it, the screen for the tool changer showed up saying that there was no burr in the spindle. I went to check the mill and there was no burr in the spindle, it had dropped it. This was so frustrating. I had done everything Sirona asked me to do to keep the machine at optimum performance and I keep on getting my butt kicked by this darn mill...now I have to wait until Tuesday for them to come and replace a part for the air pressure....seriously....someone please come to my lab and steal this mill so we can claim insurance or something...

 

[2thm8kr]

Seems to be SSDD with Sirona. Good luck to you Sirona supporters.

 

[Mark Blyumin]

I do not think MCX5 is capable to have better results, unless they rewrite the cam sw with different burs and different tool path strategy.
That will take a long time.
I do not think they will do it. I could be wrong.

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[ts4341]

I agree about the 5 axis, lots of little problems and burs % are not accurate. I can place crowns where ever I want in the puck. It doesn't mill ZR as clean as my Mini. It's does mill EMAX fits and margins very well. Anatomy, small anteriors and speed not so good. I feel they rushed this mill on to the market. We got ours in March. When we had issues(the dreaded Red Light) no one a Sirona or Patterson had ever used a MCX5, I had to call Jay Black a Beta Tester to find things out. My sales rep, moved to 3shape a month later... To much $ for this mill. I really don't understand the 5 Axis thing, it's not even close.
I do mill a lot of EMAX to pay for it and CAD is way faster then pressing... Finishing CAD is so fast.. As for Zr, jensen M200 & the Mini are way better. Tad

 

[Kristopher Devers]

Thats a croc for sure, Mohammad... I have several large clients that have dropped off to nothing with me after buying their cerec systems. They realize that they need to pay off their ~ $100k system, so they try to do everything they can with the unit to make it cost effective. I would do the same thing if I was in their place. But to use that old line about how they appreciate the lab more, or increase their volume is really dated and patently false.

I always appreciated the work my lab did....but even more so since I purchased cerec a year ago. I have an even higher level of respect for his talent. That does not hold true for all the labs I worked with....he sticks out from the other ones I have used. He did lose a lot of my business but all my higher level stuff still goes to him and it goes to show how good of a guy he is by the fact that he gives me tips and helps me out even if I m doing the work. The more he helps the better I get and also the more I realize certain cases should be with him and not me.

 

[Mark Blyumin]

Well when we first got the machine they said that the new software was coming out in August...it is almost September now. I won't believe what they say until it actually comes out.
Also, we did a test run on a emax block. The results were horrible. They want you to use the grinding method to make an emax restoration, but the smallest burr they have for grinding is a 1.2mm diamond burr. Needless to say, the anatomy didn't come out at all. As for the wax we havent even tried it since the emax test went so bad, my manager doesnt even want to waste the material on testing it out, but it would make sense that the fit would be bad when they use a 1mm burr for the inside. It's very obvious Sirona didn't really think things through with the MCX5 before they made the sale public and part of that I blame on the Beta testers. All of them are in the pockets of Sirona so I have a feeling they didn't really do their testing well, otherwise Sirona might have waited another year or 2 before going public with it. And I keep on hearing from Patterson that Sirona kinda threw the software together from parts of the inLab software. I'm really beginning think the MCX5 is just a huge money grabber for them.




Well, I did have to waste a nice chunk of a disc, but know I know what the issues are I've been particularly careful on dealing with the software.



ALSO GUESS WHAT! Something went wrong with the MXC5 AGAIN!
This time around it has to do with..wait for drumroll....AIR PRESSURE!!
So I was in the middle of a mill project when an error message showed up saying the the mill was "timed out, please select continue to restart the mill"...there was no "continue" option, just "Stop". So when I hit stop then next option did show continue but as soon as I pressed it, the screen for the tool changer showed up saying that there was no burr in the spindle. I went to check the mill and there was no burr in the spindle, it had dropped it. This was so frustrating. I had done everything Sirona asked me to do to keep the machine at optimum performance and I keep on getting my butt kicked by this darn mill...now I have to wait until Tuesday for them to come and replace a part for the air pressure....seriously....someone please come to my lab and steal this mill so we can claim insurance or something...

That is my feeling exactly. They did replaced my pressure control unit Tuesday. Very nice of them.
Also precision touch switch twice. I told them that I am very happy when I do not have to use it.LOL.

 

[BobCDT]

Its incredibly fast so you can mill out 20 units in about 3 hours, more or less, and the vacuum is placed properly to give maximum suction which leads to less dust in the unit....and thats about it when it comes to the pro's...

How is the anatomical detail of the milled restoration? If milled in under 10 minutes I would think they may not be paying significant attention to quality and surface finish.
If you could post a couple of photos it would be great.
Thanks
,
.

 

[Mark Blyumin]

Well when we first got the machine they said that the new software was coming out in August...it is almost September now. I won't believe what they say until it actually comes out.
Also, we did a test run on a emax block. The results were horrible. They want you to use the grinding method to make an emax restoration, but the smallest burr they have for grinding is a 1.2mm diamond burr. Needless to say, the anatomy didn't come out at all. As for the wax we havent even tried it since the emax test went so bad, my manager doesnt even want to waste the material on testing it out, but it would make sense that the fit would be bad when they use a 1mm burr for the inside. It's very obvious Sirona didn't really think things through with the MCX5 before they made the sale public and part of that I blame on the Beta testers. All of them are in the pockets of Sirona so I have a feeling they didn't really do their testing well, otherwise Sirona might have waited another year or 2 before going public with it. And I keep on hearing from Patterson that Sirona kinda threw the software together from parts of the inLab software. I'm really beginning think the MCX5 is just a huge money grabber for them.




Well, I did have to waste a nice chunk of a disc, but know I know what the issues are I've been particularly careful on dealing with the software.



ALSO GUESS WHAT! Something went wrong with the MXC5 AGAIN!
This time around it has to do with..wait for drumroll....AIR PRESSURE!!
So I was in the middle of a mill project when an error message showed up saying the the mill was "timed out, please select continue to restart the mill"...there was no "continue" option, just "Stop". So when I hit stop then next option did show continue but as soon as I pressed it, the screen for the tool changer showed up saying that there was no burr in the spindle. I went to check the mill and there was no burr in the spindle, it had dropped it. This was so frustrating. I had done everything Sirona asked me to do to keep the machine at optimum performance and I keep on getting my butt kicked by this darn mill...now I have to wait until Tuesday for them to come and replace a part for the air pressure....seriously....someone please come to my lab and steal this mill so we can claim insurance or something...

I can not mill any zirconia cases on this 'stinking' MCX5 mill, due to this suction error massage.

There is plenty of suction and filter bag is clean.

The air control switch has been changed by Sirona tech. last Tuesday and zirconia dust cleared from the line.

I have not milled anything since.

Do you know if there is a way to disconnect this idiotic sensor at least temporarily in order to mill a case.

Thank you.

 

[2thm8kr]

 

[zero_zero]

......................
Do you know if there is a way to disconnect this idiotic sensor at least temporarily in order to mill a case.

Find the vacuum sensor and hardwire it (if is possible, digital sensors are pita to work around)...it's either a pressure sensor in a venturi setup or a sail-switch.

 

[Mark Blyumin]

Thank you very much. I think it is more then I can do myself.

Day 2, still can not mill any zirconia cases. Probably will loose an account. And all this after a Sirona tech himself replaced the part. Patterson techs do not know the unit nor they know the software.

Prior to that I did not get suction error massages.

I have spent countless hours with PTC Support, Sirona Support my rep and still can not work like I should.

I do not know what to do any more. I have nothing but problems with this "gift from God:"-MCX5 and SW-4.31.

 

[RileyS]

Man, this is the crap I hate to hear about. Why is it that sirona labs absolutely love sirona and at the same time deal with problems like these ALL the time?!? I worked three years on the MCXL and it was problem after problem and reps and support telling me how it was always my fault. How is it when we switched to 3shape ALL problems disappeared and life ran smoothly? How is it that starting my own lab my 3shape has been flawless and my mill has only had 1...just one... actual confusing problem?? I've lost two smaller accounts to cerec and add in the other 5 or so cerec docs in my area I've considered going for an inlab setup. So I rehit the forums and facebook pages and find people still dealing with all this crap. Too bad.

 

[2thm8kr]

Man, this is the crap I hate to hear about. Why is it that sirona labs absolutely love sirona and at the same time deal with problems like these ALL the time?!? I worked three years on the MCXL and it was problem after problem and reps and support telling me how it was always my fault. How is it when we switched to 3shape ALL problems disappeared and life ran smoothly? How is it that starting my own lab my 3shape has been flawless and my mill has only had 1...just one... actual confusing problem?? I've lost two smaller accounts to cerec and add in the other 5 or so cerec docs in my area I've considered going for an inlab setup. So I rehit the forums and facebook pages and find people still dealing with all this crap. Too bad.

The power of marketing, or they make their kool-aid extra sweet.

 

[Mark Blyumin]

They hate it as much as anyone they are stuck.
I left cerec world 10 years ago because of this crap.
Now I thought that they have changed but NO, WHY CHANGE WHEN IDIOTS LIKE ME STILL PAY THEM $

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[RileyS]

They hate it as much as anyone they are stuck.
I left cerec world 10 years ago because of this crap.
Now I thought that they have changed but NO, WHY CHANGE WHEN IDIOTS LIKE ME STILL PAY THEM $

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Haha! I have a quote on my desktop. "Take Risks. If you win you'll be happy. If you lose, you'll be wise." I wish I could have sent this to you sooner. I think you needed this after the first time on cerec
I hope it turns around and kicks Arss for you somehow

 

[rkm rdt]

I feel for you as well Mark.

If it's any consolation, those one visit Lava Ultimate crowns have now become 2 visits.

 

[2thm8kr]

I feel for you as well Mark.

If it's any consolation, those one visit Lava Ultimate crowns have now become 2 visits.

are you changing those crowns out to something that will stay in place?

 

[Mark Blyumin]

Does this mean that I am twice as wise? LOL
Thank you for nice words.



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[rkm rdt]

are you changing those crowns out to something that will stay in place?

I had one of mine pop out so I remilled in fcz.The other one needed an endo so I'm glad I used LU.

 

[2thm8kr]

I had one of mine pop out so I remilled in fcz.The other one needed an endo so I'm glad I used LU.

Lucky dog.