New inLab MC 5-Axis "Open" Mill

RileyS

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So a Patterson tech came over and they recalibrated the machine. It worked for a day, but now theres these little small fractures on the margins, not enough for us to redo but enough for us to notice that there's something wrong with the machine.

None of the higher ups at Sirona is answering our emails or calls regarding this machine. David Bowlin is completely ignoring us like the issue will go away if they just ignore it. I am now going to talk to someone at LMT (Lab Managmant Today) to see if they can help bring light to how corrupt a company Sirona is. If anyone wants to join please message me so we can band together and make them hurt.
This takes me back! There was nothing that made me more frustrated than working with Sirona and Patterson!!! Everything was typically my fault.
And I hated hearing from some labs how great and wonderful it milled. Unfortunately, those that had forked out 100,000$ for the craplab found themselves with a machine that gave you chipped margins and weekly calls to tech support because the mill or the sftwr was constantly freezing or doing something to ruin your day.
I still can't decide what the truth is...do more users suffer or do they really have the Amazing InLab the sales reps preached??????????????????????????????
 
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goku_zirconia

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This takes me back! There was nothing that made me more frustrated than working with Sirona and Patterson!!! Everything was typically my fault.
And I hated hearing from some labs how great and wonderful it milled. Unfortunately, those that had forked out 100,000$ for the craplab found themselves with a machine that gave you chipped margins and weekly calls to tech support because the mill or the sftwr was constantly freezing or doing something to ruin your day.
I still can't decide what the truth is...do more users suffer or do they really have the Amazing InLab the sales reps preached??????????????????????????????

I bet you my right arm and left leg, those "I love Sirona" labs are in the pockets of Sirona. Sirona/Cerec pays for them to go to their yearly parties in Vegas and treats them like royalty while the rest of us "commoners" suffer for their lies.
 
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Mark Blyumin

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I agree with all of you.
I was one of the advocates many years ago. I quit after I realized that most of the promises were not kaped.
I thought that now they have changed. I got back in with X5 and MCX5.
Only now I have more problems with it then in 2003. Then we expected problems because it was new way of making crowns. Now there is no excuse.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
CreDes

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Sirona's mill is a 3+2 axis and not a 5 axis simultaneous milling machine. What exactly is a 3+2 axis and what are its limitations?
 
zero_zero

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3+2 milling is basically 3 axis milling with the part indexed about the two rotary axii...
 
BobCDT

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CreDes

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This makes sense. So really the MCX5 or any other 3+2 will only help in initially positioning the unit and then mill as a 3 axis. Thank you for both of your replies and help!
 
zero_zero

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This makes sense. So really the MCX5 or any other 3+2 will only help in initially positioning the unit and then mill as a 3 axis. Thank you for both of your replies and help!

Most of the dental milling regardless of the hardware will be 3 axis cutting, for each unit the CAM will position the disk to an optimal tool reach position then perform an individual cutting cycle in 3 axis movement. To be more precise, except for finishing cycles, the actual cutting will mostly happen in 2+1 axis...constant Z spirals, increase depth by plunge rate, then repeat... Pretty much everything can be cut in 3+2...

Contrary to what Bob said, 3+2 is not a 4 axis mill. 3+2 is a 5 axis mill operated in indexed mode, the rotary axii are fixed and the cutting is performed in XYZ movement. Unless you're cutting complex geometries like implant bars, this is the standard in dental production.
Another operating mode is the simultaneous movement about all 5 axii. Advantages of the 5 axis cutting are: better surface finish since the tool can be kept tangential to the part, also can engage the whole cutting length vs. the tool tip, complex geometries (undercuts) can be cut in one cycle, increased reach, so shorter tools can be used to maximize rigidity (less deflection, better finish)... Sounds good, however it doesn't really work for the garden variety dental mills...the rotary axii lag behind the linear axii feedrate vise...therefore the cutting rate will be reduced to the speed of the slowest rotary axis...milling a crown all cycles in 5 axis cutting would take quite longer than 3+2 (or 3+1) per se... Another aspect is the lack of position feedback, most dental mills are driven by stepper motors are prone to loose steps (or worse: stall) when stressed or overdriven...hence the accumulated error is greater cutting in 5 axis vs 3+2...
Also a beefy CAM is needed to fully take advantage of the 5 axis milling, the watered down dental CAM versions just not up to that task IMO...mind ya an industrial 5axis CAM starts at $20k+...
Bottom line, is cool to show off with it, or to cut implant bars...have yet to see a production facility pumping out crows cut in 5 axis mode...

Back to the 4 axis mill, will have one rotary axis (or two rotary and two linear in case of the older Sirona units)... the cutting will be in 3+1 mode (flipping the disc is the "+1"),still lots can be achieved this way (all C&B),even screw retained bridges if the screw hole angulations can be lined up in one plane...and given the CAM is capable to index about the rotary axis...( and there are the "lollipop" tools, but that's another story)...Hope this helps...:)
 
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cadfan

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additional to Zero Zero true 5 ax is like driving thrue pylons left right , left right this works at low angels with higher speed as higher the angles over 10- 15 degrees as lower the speed . Hard angles which are especially on the outside surface are often better milled with 3 plus 2 if the strategie allows positioning as often as needed. Inside crowns true 5 ax is better because tools go down angled 3-15 degrees not causing a shaft collision or the shaft is a bit smaller but problems with smaller tools instability. B axii are most time the limitation factor.
 
LA Ceramics

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Please watch their ridiculous video



The Scheisse-CAM does not allow tilting of the part while nesting!!! WHAAATTT?!!!
The strategies are absurd (Rough Mill useful only for claiming 10 minute milling time)
Also, seeing the new and improved inlab software I am at a loss for words,..ok,...@!#$%&$!!!!
Favourite lines ;
"You don't have to worry about that,..it just does it"
"If you get a blue wristband, you get free access to our party tonight"

NO THANK YOU
 
2thm8kr

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Please watch their ridiculous video



The Scheisse-CAM does not allow tilting of the part while nesting!!! WHAAATTT?!!!
The strategies are absurd (Rough Mill useful only for claiming 10 minute milling time)
Also, seeing the new and improved inlab software I am at a loss for words,..ok,...@!#$%&$!!!!
Favourite lines ;
"You don't have to worry about that,..it just does it"
"If you get a blue wristband, you get free access to our party tonight"

NO THANK YOU

That's a half hour of your life you will never get back. Don't drink the Kool-Aid.
 
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goku_zirconia

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Well we saw a Roland DWX-50 the other day and milled out a full zirconia crown and an screw retained full zirconia crown.

Saw the simultaneous 5 axis in action. Needless to say it was awesome to see. As for the timing it wasn't as bad as one would think. The mill finished both crowns in about 20 minutes.
 
Sean Ash (CIDL)

Sean Ash (CIDL)

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We updated our old mills to the new MCX5 and let me tell you it runs great. I think the 1st batch of the mills may have had some bugs in them but now with the new inLab15 software designing and milling all on 4s, all on 6s , custom zirconia abutment is as easy and perfect as it can be and the fit is great. The beauty of this system is that from the moment that you scan the case , both the CAD and the CAM software are designed for the units and there is nothing left to get lost in translation. The system works as one great unit and going from wet to dry or dry to wet is just added value for any lab so you don't need 2 different milling unit. The only way to get all on 6's done right is to have 5 axis mill.
 
CreDes

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We updated our old mills to the new MCX5 and let me tell you it runs great. I think the 1st batch of the mills may have had some bugs in them but now with the new inLab15 software designing and milling all on 4s, all on 6s , custom zirconia abutment is as easy and perfect as it can be and the fit is great. The beauty of this system is that from the moment that you scan the case , both the CAD and the CAM software are designed for the units and there is nothing left to get lost in translation. The system works as one great unit and going from wet to dry or dry to wet is just added value for any lab so you don't need 2 different milling unit. The only way to get all on 6's done right is to have 5 axis mill.

That makes sense. I have one of the first X5 scanners released and we had a few issues at first. It works great now.
 
REJ

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Zero Zero is dead on with the description from a dynamics perspective there are advantages to 3+2 in certain application, for example mos implant bars and screw channels where an a and b axis can tilt then allow for more rapid and stabile machining in three axis mode at a tilt. For more dynamic types of movement over organic shapes then simultaneous is advantageous as constance surface spacing can be maintained for goo finish quality. It necessitates better calibration and also is often much more time consuming to calculate and can slow tool paths. In general it is best to have ability to incorporate both and programming that understands the advantages of why and where to use each.
 
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Mark Blyumin

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We updated our old mills to the new MCX5 and let me tell you it runs great. I think the 1st batch of the mills may have had some bugs in them but now with the new inLab15 software designing and milling all on 4s, all on 6s , custom zirconia abutment is as easy and perfect as it can be and the fit is great. The beauty of this system is that from the moment that you scan the case , both the CAD and the CAM software are designed for the units and there is nothing left to get lost in translation. The system works as one great unit and going from wet to dry or dry to wet is just added value for any lab so you don't need 2 different milling unit. The only way to get all on 6's done right is to have 5 axis mill.
I will tell you that I could not mill 10 units zirconia bridge over 8 custom abutments. The cam SW does not allow to angle restoration in the puck. What kind of 5 axis are you talking about? So the only pack I could use for this case is 40mm zirconia puck. The burs are not long enough.
MCX5 is not capable to mill anything that over 25mm and if you can not angle the restoration, then you can't even use that.
 
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Mark Blyumin

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I know that and thats not the problem here. The problem here is the product sucks and no amount of talking in Facebook is going to fix that.
I have a problem with X5 scanner that I use ones a month on 4 or 5 cases.
The camera stopped working. Does anyone know why. It only has been 2 years with very little use. It is very frustrating!
 
CreDes

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I have a problem with X5 scanner that I use ones a month on 4 or 5 cases.
The camera stopped working. Does anyone know why. It only has been 2 years with very little use. It is very frustrating!

I heard of an issue like this with another lab on the inlab Facebook forum. If you bought it new and it is only 2 years old it is under warranty call Patterson and it will be fixed for free.
 
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Mark Blyumin

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Yes, they already started the process.
They determined that the board has to be changed. I am really concerned about this thing being so poorly made that after only 2 years of ones a week use the board needs to be changed.
I hope nothing else will go wrong.
Suppose to be fixed today.
Thank you for response.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
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Gru

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If it's any encouragement, within a few days of receiving my scanner the cameras had glitches. The manufacturer replaced the camera boards immediately and no issues for a year now. Seems the part was poorly made and the movement in shipping damaged the conductivity of the connectors. Bad stuff happens to expensive equipment, but how the dealer & manufacturer handle it is critical. I'm impressed with mine, as some of you know.
 
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