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RileyS

RileyS

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Tom-"Those that think Americans will not buy imported when it comes to custom dental devices may want to go to the store...any store."

I think there is a difference when it comes to medical devices. I would love to find a survey that shows how people respond to medical over household products made in china/mexico/"3rd world country."
I have my gadgets and cars made out of country but would never want my hip, heart, or oral products from there.
 
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We advertise on a local LA radio station. $1200 per 60 second spot.

Can I ask you about this, I'm curious? What does your ad say? Are you advertising to dentists or asking the patients to ask their dentist to use your lab for their work?

Is there any place I can hear the ad? Could you put up on youtube or something?
 
Tom Moore

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Tom-"Those that think Americans will not buy imported when it comes to custom dental devices may want to go to the store...any store."

I think there is a difference when it comes to medical devices. I would love to find a survey that shows how people respond to medical over household products made in china/Mexico/"RD world country."
I have my gadgets and cars made out of country but would never want my hip, heart, or oral products from there.

Sure you think their is a difference. A lot of techs here are hanging their hope to be saved on this premise.

Lets face it patients don't know their domestic custom dental device was made in a converted garage with Fido and the cat in attendance either.

I have no problem with the patient being made aware of where the work is manufactured.

What about the brakes in that imported car? there is just no smoking gun of patient harm from the millions of custom dental device that have be imported.

That then means its about protecting the domestic techs job even if costs twice as much.

That said I am starting to see more and more domestic made crowns with prices that are very close to the imports. The system works but can be brutal on the individual. The better for less that is caused by competition is good for the patient and that is what this is about?????
 
DentureDude

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Tom-"Those that think Americans will not buy imported when it comes to custom dental devices may want to go to the store...any store."

I think there is a difference when it comes to medical devices. I would love to find a survey that shows how people respond to medical over household products made in china/mexico/"3rd world country."
I have my gadgets and cars made out of country but would never want my hip, heart, or oral products from there.

so true.

i love it when the argument that is supposed to somehow justify what is going on with outsourcing our countries dental industry is,.. "well.. you bought your toaster at wallmart (china)"... "your car is from japan"..


our product are personal. i dont make a denture that is exactly the same as any other. ive been at this for 30 years now and not one has been exactly the same as another. our product is not mass produced. sent all over the world to be put up on a shelf, or in a car lot somewhere for the masses to chose from.

if a man in china needs his shoe repaired.. that is a personal service. you think he is going to put it on an airplane and send it over to america? even if he could save a few bucks?

it may not make a bit of difference for some americans to know they are wearing a "made in china" product inside their body. a product that took jobs away from their neighbors. but others might just give a damn. so yes.. they have a right to know.
 
EJADA

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I was thinking (always a bit scary). If there are some ideas that we think of to empower the public with this information we may want to PM them. Ol sour **** will end up trying to dominate the thread with his doom and gloom for those of us that still believe there is room for the personal touch. I really like what you all (most) are saying here.

I have wondered at times, is this about offshore outsourcing or out of town outsourcing?
Is gw much different to a local lab than china? Not to me. Once the crown/denture ships out of my area that patient has lost the personal touch only a local tech can give. I'm sure some dentists like that anonymity. My local clients work with me because I am local and they like the close relationship we have developed over the years. They feel it gives their patients better service. IMO
 
DentureDude

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I was thinking (always a bit scary). If there are some ideas that we think of to empower the public with this information we may want to PM them. Ol sour **** will end up trying to dominate the thread with his doom and gloom for those of us that still believe there is room for the personal touch. I really like what you all (most) are saying here.

I have wondered at times, is this about offshore outsourcing or out of town outsourcing?
Is gw much different to a local lab than china? Not to me. Once the crown/denture ships out of my area that patient has lost the personal touch only a local tech can give. I'm sure some dentists like that anonymity. My local clients work with me because I am local and they like the close relationship we have developed over the years. They feel it gives their patients better service. IMO


i do feel a little different about it.

(sorry, this is about to go way to long..)

for me anything made in the USA by our citizens is understandable and fair competition. it may not seem fair sometimes to have to compete with the big boys inside our borders but i have to believe that it is.
i have no real problem with it. to a large degree we have to play by the same rules. (sorta) and truly.. there is nothing stopping any one of us from becoming one of them. (if that happens to be the grand plan in someones life). uuug..

the problem i have is china’s currency manipulation.

it makes the yuan artificially cheap. that provides a subsidy on chinese exports. it is what makes their products so cheap. its basically a big ole bs lie about what the yuan is really worth. most people think the problem is the cheap chinese labor, but in the grand scheme of things that has little to do with it.
so we end up in a huge trade deficit (about a 300 billion dollar difference last year alone). and thats just scratching the surface of all the bs thats going on right now.
for starters we have to shell out big to fund our manufacturing R&D departments.. they just blatantly copy and steal whatever they want. thats just one example of why our prices end up higher with less profit, and theirs get to be lower with more profit. pretty hard to compete if you are the one paying for the innovation and selling,.. while they are just stealing and selling.

and then they flat out deny us any access to their massive chinese market. keep in mind thats almost 1.4 billion consumers. (we only have around 300 million in the US.)
because of policy (their policy) we are not really allowed to own anything or make a profit over there, but they are allowed to buy us up and make huge unprecedented financial gains. they blast our economy with unfair trade practices so the prices we charge for whatever we make has to go lower and lower and lower. i think tom covered this in one of his recent yada yada. but of course with the same ole tired spin that could only come from living the life of a profiteer. he actually likes to paint the picture as if 'it is a fair and good thing'. as if competing with china is (and should be) just the same as the lab across town.

i know that allot of peeps are probably thinking.. well its our fault for letting them do that to us. cant we just stop it with our own trade policies?

not so simple..
so how do they get away with it? in a word.. blackmail. keep in mind they now have stuff we dont have.. and we really.. really need.
you know,. kinda like the oil in the middle east.. but different. (and it changes).
right now its something called rare earth minerals. we need it. they have it.. we dont. why?
because in the recent past they intentionally paid off the right people so they could corner the market. they intentionally and systematically created a strategic advantage by pressuring non chinese downstream producers to move their mining operations, jobs and technologies to china.

what is it? its a range of essential base elements used in high tech manufacturing. and it is absolutely critical for our national defense. its used in products from tanks and ships to radar systems and night vision goggles. as well as much needed green energy products like wind turbines and batteries for electric vehicles.

right now.. china is restricting the export of these minerals to the US. its their way of saying F.U. and keeping the united states over a barrel. just because right now we are trying to say "come on.. cant we be at least somewhat realistic in our trading agreements? because of their calculating mafia tactics china now produces over 97% of the rare earth minerals on the planet. these current restrictions blatantly go against all the world trade organization rules... that china has agreed to.
thats just a few examples of whats really going on.. as we speak.

pretty much the chinese government will flat out just ignore whatever international trade rules and formal agreements they want.. and according to "you know who" if your an out of work american, or a struggling lab owner your supposed to just bend over, take it... and say thank you so much for the lesson in the new world economy.
 
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EJADA

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DentureDude,

I totally get what you are saying and agree. That was good information. I forget sometimes there is more than my bubble.
 
cheadlemick

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Back to my question! do the dentists pass any of the 50% savings to the patients? Surely they should get some of the benefit! Remember the patient should be the only concern to the dentist! In France they have to put the price of the job as well as the country of manufacture by law! Same in the uk but no price is required!
 
D

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Guys, it's unfortunate that this guy advocating China-made work isn't facing the fact that he is in the human exploitation business and making money doing it. Exploitation in that those people need to eat and he is providing a means for them to do it. He's making money at the same time... The Chinese people should be honored by this act...I understand why he's on here in the attempt to make himself feel better about his lot in life. I would hate to be the person in my industry that most of my peers despise. Try Prozac, it works...

Making a reference to Wal Mart really isn't on the level in that any product you pick up there has stamped right on the packaging where the product is made so the consumer can decide. China-made restorations are not identified in any way for the end user (patient) to decide. It's actually a disservice to the patient not to provide this useful information.

Also, any other medical device or internally taken product sold WITHOUT country of origin??? If I'm the pacemaker recipient, I wonder if I could ask for the china-made option to save some money...or if I'm the Cardiologist and buying the pacemaker from China, selling to the patient based on U.S. prices, and pocketing the difference. The patient is none the wiser...same thing except you as the patient know where the pacemaker is made. Interesting comparison.

Don
 
Tom Moore

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Should you be forced to tell the dentist what you paid for the materials you use to make a crown or denture? If you buy materials in bulk and save money should you pass those savings on?

Why would the patient get some of the benefit of the dentist doing his do diligence and shopping for the best price for like products.

As a Patient you need to ask where your pacemaker was made and the dentist should do the same if ask. It's domestic labs selling imported work without coo not the offshore lab that is the problem.

One reason I'm here alone most of the time is the number of Americas conning Americans is a very large problem. When you buy from me their is never a doubt where it came from.
 
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EJADA

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Back to my question! do the dentists pass any of the 50% savings to the patients? Surely they should get some of the benefit! Remember the patient should be the only concern to the dentist! In France they have to put the price of the job as well as the country of manufacture by law! Same in the uk but no price is required!

Not likely Many sell themselves as "quality " then buy this stuff.
 
EJADA

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Should you be forced to tell the dentist what you paid for the materials you use to make a crown or denture? If you buy materials in bulk and save money should you pass those savings on?

Why would the patient get some of the benefit of the dentist doing his do diligence and shopping for the best price for like products.

As a Patient you need to ask where your pacemaker was made and the dentist should do the same if ask. It's domestic labs selling imported work without coo not the offshore lab that is the problem.

One reason I'm here alone most of the time is the number of Americas conning Americans is a very large problem. When you buy from me their is never a doubt where it came from.





When you buy from me there is never any doubt who made it.
 
cheadlemick

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The prime concern should be the patients welfare! All I'm saying is you should have a breakdown of costs! Like the last time you had your car serviced? I think that should be the minimum!
 
cheadlemick

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Should you be forced to tell the dentist what you paid for the materials you use to make a crown or denture? If you buy materials in bulk and save money should you pass those savings on?

Why would the patient get some of the benefit of the dentist doing his do diligence and shopping for the best price for like products.

As a Patient you need to ask where your pacemaker was made and the dentist should do the same if ask. It's domestic labs selling imported work without coo not the offshore lab that is the problem.

One reason I'm here alone most of the time is the number of Americas conning Americans is a very large problem. When you buy from me their is never a doubt where it came from.
As you always say Tom life ain't fair don't pull the "every one hates me" line! In your defence at least your upfront about everything!
 
NicelyMKV

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What does it for me, and I rarely hear it mentioned, is china is a COMMUNIST country! Some of the worst human rights in the world! Hacking into our government computers, redirecting Internet traffic through their servers, working out deals with our enemy's to have our wartime technology transported to them etc etc etc?!? Why in the hell would I want to help fund their military?!?! It's not about me being insecure about my job? There are a lot of extremely talented technicians in other places. If it went to them, I would hate it, but understand. But communist, soon to surpass us as a super power China?!? Why would anybody willingly support them?!
 
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Back to the subject: Try the local news. They always need shocking stories to warn their viewers about. "Tonight at 10: you won't believe what could be in your mouth RIGHT NOW." Our local news ran a story about it, featuring us because we use only American made materials and don't outsource to China. We didn't even have to suggest it. They came to us. Then we put the video up on our website for even more free advertising.
 
Tom Moore

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This extra layer would be necessary if there was a smoking gun of imported work harming the patient. After millions of cases there is not.

This is about job protection and wrapping up in patient protection is just not going to get the labs customer on board.

I personally wish all the things that some here think are necessary would come about.

Learn to compete or learn something else is part of capitalism 101.
 
Tom Moore

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What does it for me, and I rarely hear it mentioned, is china is a COMMUNIST country! Some of the worst human rights in the world! Hacking into our government computers, redirecting Internet traffic through their servers, working out deals with our enemy's to have our wartime technology transported to them etc etc etc?!? Why in the hell would I want to help fund their military?!?! It's not about me being insecure about my job? There are a lot of extremely talented technicians in other places. If it went to them, I would hate it, but understand. But communist, soon to surpass us as a super power China?!? Why would anybody willingly support them?!

I would come closer to buying this sort of post if domestic techs had not waited until their ox was being gored before posting this over and over for ten years now.

There is a need for 150,000 engineers in this country today. We need to aim this country at the future of an educated work force and not holding on to old business models that are being done in third world countries more efficiently and a lower cost to the consumer.
 
NicelyMKV

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I agree to a point about the state of our workforce in dental technology. Do you think if a degree was mandatory it would make a difference? I started out in a large lab with a lot of technicians doing complicated work. I found out. Few years later they had zero schooling. On the job training only. It took me awhile to wrap my head around it. I still think we could do more to help our profession carry more clout? Just wondering?
 

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