What is the strongest method for bonding Zirc in the mouth ?

[Getoothachopper]

Had a Doc call me . He has a case where the preps were very small / short with fairly long teeth . He has used Fuji Cem to bond in the mouth . But a year later they are coming off . Anyone have any ideas of a good material to really glue these suckers in ? ,,,,,,,,,, many thanks in advance for any answers .

 

[user name]

If preps are compromised...short, tapered, I use a very small bur in the green state and cut horizontal retention grooves for the cement to grab. Dr needs to use Ivoclean.

 

[Getoothachopper]

If preps are compromised...short, tapered, I use a very small bur in the green state and cut horizontal retention grooves for the cement to grab. Dr needs to use Ivoclean.

Thanks , I talked to some other Docs and they like Ivoclean too followed by a 'silane coupler ' ( no idea how to spell that )

 

[2thm8kr]

Silane will not work on zirconia, use something else for a chemical coupler. We are using Bisco Universal Bond on Zr with good results.

 

[Patrick Coon]

Thanks , I talked to some other Docs and they like Ivoclean too followed by a 'silane coupler ' ( no idea how to spell that )

Silane, really wont help with Zr02, as silane bonds to glass. You need a bonding agent with MDP (10-Methacryloyloxydecyl dihydrogen phosphate) in it. MDP will bond to zirconia. Is it going to be the same bond as you get with silane to glass, NO, but it will help. Our product containing MDP would be Monobond Plus. This contains a silane, MDP and a sulphide methacrylate (for metal).

 

[Patrick Coon]

Silane will not work on zirconia, use something else for a chemical coupler. We are using Bisco Universal Bond on Zr with good results.

Damn-it 2th! There you go stealing my thunder again!

 

[2thm8kr]

Damn-it 2th! There you go stealing my thunder again!

Type faster pops.

 

[Getoothachopper]

One of my Docs likes C&B metabond by Parkell ,,,,,,anyone have success with that on Zirc ?

 

[Getoothachopper]

Silane will not work on zirconia, use something else for a chemical coupler. We are using Bisco Universal Bond on Zr with good results.

Thanks for that info , I will pass that along to them .

 

[Affinity]

I hear good things about Ivoclean, like if a crown has to be bisected, it still sticks to the tooth.. Ive heard of another product on FB that is a lithium discillicate ( I think) spray that you fire on the intaglio of the crown, the idea being that you can etch it. I dont think I would ever spray porcelain on the inside of a crown though.

Some Drs insist on this:

 

[Patrick Coon]

Ivoclean only cleans all phophates from the surface of the crown. this way the MDP can actually have a place to bond.

Here is a link to a video that explains the concept behind Ivoclean:

http://www.ivoclarvivadent.com/en/video#flash_box_43758

You still need to use a bonding agent (Monobond+) to get the MDP.

 

[Contraluz]

a lithium discillicate ( I think) spray

Now, that sounds interesting. What I have done, on Marylands, is applying a thin layer of porcelain to the intaglio surface. Which then is etched.

Edit: I design a 'place holder' or virtually block out the die for the thin porcelain layer

 

[McTeeth]

I hear good things about Ivoclean, like if a crown has to be bisected, it still sticks to the tooth.. Ive heard of another product on FB that is a lithium discillicate ( I think) spray that you fire on the intaglio of the crown, the idea being that you can etch it. I dont think I would ever spray porcelain on the inside of a crown though.

Some Drs insist on this:

That's what we use...I wonder if using Ivoclean before this would create the ultimate combo?

Edit: I suppose there is no proteins/phosphates on the intaglio surface in the lab right? So Ivoclean would be pointless from a lab perspective?

 

[McTeeth]

Ivoclean only cleans all phophates from the surface of the crown. this way the MDP can actually have a place to bond.

Here is a link to a video that explains the concept behind Ivoclean:

http://www.ivoclarvivadent.com/en/video#flash_box_43758

You still need to use a bonding agent (Monobond+) to get the MDP.

If you use a coupling agent like silane or MDP in the lab prior to sending to clinic, does the Dr have to "do" anything after try-in? I had a Dr tell me that when silanating the emax crown prior, it "protects from contamination" as the "chemistry" has already happened and he just need to water spray the crown after try-in

 

[2000markpeters]

Etch the intaglio with Zircose-E etch. Will give you about 25% better bonding. It is the only zirconia etch on the market. Highly dangerous to use, take all the appropriate precautions. Well ventilated fume hood, rubber gloves, goggles, lab coat etc. Been using it for about a year now, amazing results.

 

[2thm8kr]

If you use a coupling agent like silane or MDP in the lab prior to sending to clinic, does the Dr have to "do" anything after try-in? I had a Dr tell me that when silanating the emax crown prior, it "protects from contamination" as the "chemistry" has already happened and he just need to water spray the crown after try-in

Just have them clean it with isopropyl alcohol and dry it with an air syringe.

 

[2000markpeters]

Zircose-E Ingredients

 

[cadfan]

you can etch with the devil himself more than 40 % HF acid or add some etchable glass matrix but that **** work.

 

[Affinity]

Are there any SEM images that show what etched zirconia looks like? how can you know if its etching? how do you know its not damaging the zirconia structure?

 

[2000markpeters]

Please find attached SEM images