warranties?

[hydent]

Curios what kind of warranty everyone offers on their appliances, flippers, dentures etc. the reason I ask is I had an acrylic partial come in for a repair today (I didnt make it, it looked older than me) and they said it was repaired by me 5 months ago it's had wires, mesh all kinds of other repairs from other labs long story short I didn't fix it for free. I don't really have a warranty policy set in place I just fix stuff if I believe it should be fixed for free. What's your labs policies on this?

 

[kcdt]

First off I wouldn't warranty a new denture beyond a six to ten year range because of material breakdown.
If I have to repair something I've made and its a workmanship flaw, then no charge Although I will generate an invoice for writeoff. material tracking lot #s, and remake rates.
If I made it and the problem is occlusal/ anatomically based, and I advised the client of better construction protocols that the patient has ruled out, then I charge; I am not responsible for someone else's bad choice.
If I did not make it, I warranty nothing... there's a reason its breaking and the repair to me is only to buy the time needed to make a new appliance- if the patient chooses not to heed my opinion, again I won't be held responsible, I charge each and every time.

P.S. 5 months is way to long for anyone in their right mind to expect to get a freebie repair of a turd that's been polished that many times.
so to speak....

 

[hydent]

That's how I oporate too, just second guessing my business policies. I agree there was no way I was fixing that piece of **** for free. By the time you add up all of the money thats been wasted on that thing they could have had cast partial made.

 

[CYNOSURER]

Most times I tell docs that we can put some things back together with a repair but the repair won't fix the problem. No guarrantees...once it's taken out of the bag.

ESPECIALLY GOES FOR FLIPPERS...unless made with Valplast.

 

[Brian]

By the time you add up all of the money thats been wasted on that thing they could have had cast partial made.

You could, but they can't at their 400 to 500% mark up..

Transitional acrylic partials or "flippers" are just that transitional. Can't give much of warranty on that? I warranty against material and workmanship.

Question? How do "we" warranty something that "we" have zero control over? Has the patient been recalled for evaluation? Fit and function? Is the patient due for a reline? Some people experience resorption quicker than others.. Did the doc smooth out and polish the teeth after equilibration? Is the patient a bruxer and they wear the partial or denture to bed? So many questions that need to be answered?

Here's one for you? Add a tooth to an existing RPD. Tooth is extracted ( for giggles lets say #8 ) Out there all by it's lonesome. Spot weld a lug, use a little metal primer and replace the tooth. You here nothing out of until 7 months later and it comes back for a repair. Do you say yes I warranty that and fix it for nothing?

 

[hydent]

no way I would warranty that for free! all to often these transitional partials are used for years when they are supposed to be used for months how long do you guys warranty a transitional? the lab I worked at years ago warrantied them for two weeks. I had a situation about a year ago I happend to be in the office when the guy walked in with the partial that I had repaired the 4 incisors and they broke off of the mesh on the frame work (which was way underextended and didn't have a bar across the for added retention) he insisted that we repair it at no cost even though I'm sure there was occlusal issues on top of being structurally unsound. long story short is I didn't mention those issues the first time I had repaired it so I ended up fixing it again this time at no charge however I did inform them of the issues at hand and documented them as I should have the first time. What can I say sometimes I'm just not thinking and in too big of a hurry to document and call and inform, well it ended up costing me more time and money in the end. WARNING TO ALL OTHER TECHS DO NOT LET THIS KIND OF THING HAPPEN TO YOU!!!

 

[kcdt]

no way I would warranty that for free! all to often these transitional partials are used for years when they are supposed to be used for months how long do you guys warranty a transitional? the lab I worked at years ago warrantied them for two weeks. I had a situation about a year ago I happend to be in the office when the guy walked in with the partial that I had repaired the 4 incisors and they broke off of the mesh on the frame work (which was way underextended and didn't have a bar across the for added retention) he insisted that we repair it at no cost even though I'm sure there was occlusal issues on top of being structurally unsound. long story short is I didn't mention those issues the first time I had repaired it so I ended up fixing it again this time at no charge however I did inform them of the issues at hand and documented them as I should have the first time. What can I say sometimes I'm just not thinking and in too big of a hurry to document and call and inform, well it ended up costing me more time and money in the end. WARNING TO ALL OTHER TECHS DO NOT LET THIS KIND OF THING HAPPEN TO YOU!!!

I can see how that could be a case by case type of thing, but I never let myself get ambushed by someone trying to get me to endlessly repair what I hand no hand in manufacturing. In this case I suppose it would depend on how soon since the repair happened. What I'd probably do in this situation is point out that I'm not responsible for the original design flaws and offer to credit the repair cost when they start a new appliance, otherwise TS.
I hate people who insist what they don't know about.
But I can be a curmudgeon.

 

[kcdt]

By the time you add up all of the money thats been wasted on that thing they could have had cast partial made.

You could, but they can't at their 400 to 500% mark up..

Transitional acrylic partials or "flippers" are just that transitional. Can't give much of warranty on that? I warranty against material and workmanship.

Question? How do "we" warranty something that "we" have zero control over? Has the patient been recalled for evaluation? Fit and function? Is the patient due for a reline? Some people experience resorption quicker than others.. Did the doc smooth out and polish the teeth after equilibration? Is the patient a bruxer and they wear the partial or denture to bed? So many questions that need to be answered?

Here's one for you? Add a tooth to an existing RPD. Tooth is extracted ( for giggles lets say #8 ) Out there all by it's lonesome. Spot weld a lug, use a little metal primer and replace the tooth. You here nothing out of until 7 months later and it comes back for a repair. Do you say yes I warranty that and fix it for nothing?

Hell I wont even warranty that I wont wind up melting the damn thing into a blob of alloy!!!!!! Even with an electric solderer, these things can be frought with unseen pitfalls. I always tell them upfront that:
1 I can't warrany altering an RPD beyond its original design, and
2 That I might just destroy the frikkin' thing trying....
You'd be surprised how often a new one doesn't seem so unreasonable to them....
Although destruction is free, so at that price its a bargain

 

[hydent]

I can see how that could be a case by case type of thing, but I never let myself get ambushed by someone trying to get me to endlessly repair what I hand no hand in manufacturing. In this case I suppose it would depend on how soon since the repair happened. What I'd probably do in this situation is point out that I'm not responsible for the original design flaws and offer to credit the repair cost when they start a new appliance, otherwise TS.
I hate people who insist what they don't know about.
But I can be a curmudgeon.

the repair was about 6 months old.

soldering to partials is a tricky situation too they always expect it to last but we all know that solder is not a strong point. I'm wondering now if it would be fair to have these policies on paper for them to have on hand.

 

[hydent]

here's one for ya I had a doc who had just delivered a nightguard that I had made,the patient was walking out of the office and dropped the plastic box as he was walking the nightguard fell out he stepped on it and broke it and the doc wanted me to fix it for free. I said well they really arent suppsed to withstand being stepped on if it broke under normal use ......etc. I ended up fixing the damn thing for free just because I felt bad for the poor bastard who just paid 400 dollars for a nightguard and literally seconds later stepped on it.

 

[dentor2010]

This is one of the reasons why I stopped fabricating dentures two years ago. Some of the dentists who used to work with me still ask me to have the dentures I had made then , repaired for free. It's really annoying!!

 

[kcdt]

here's one for ya I had a doc who had just delivered a nightguard that I had made,the patient was walking out of the office and dropped the plastic box as he was walking the nightguard fell out he stepped on it and broke it and the doc wanted me to fix it for free. I said well they really arent suppsed to withstand being stepped on if it broke under normal use ......etc. I ended up fixing the damn thing for free just because I felt bad for the poor bastard who just paid 400 dollars for a nightguard and literally seconds later stepped on it.

Haven't you ever heard of the old five steps or five seconds out the door warranty?
Honestly though I'd have remade it free for the goodwill. Its not like it was willful, and I can't just punish everyone.

 

[kcdt]

the repair was about 6 months old.

soldering to partials is a tricky situation too they always expect it to last but we all know that solder is not a strong point. I'm wondering now if it would be fair to have these policies on paper for them to have on hand.

You know, the last one I did that to (add a cuspid) worked fine, but I told Dr that it should be properly remade given the new edentulous space. Low and behold a month later the patient had a new one fabricated. As far as I know both are still around. So you never can tell.
I think a written policy is great, but since I am not convinced they remember anything, I ALWAYS repeat it in person or on the phone when the repair hits the door.
And at six months old that was total BS for the patient to ambush you like that.My response would've been "I got two words for you and they aint happy birthday"

 

[kcdt]

This is one of the reasons why I stopped fabricating dentures two years ago. Some of the dentists who used to work with me still ask me to have the dentures I had made then , repaired for free. It's really annoying!!

You can solve that by having clear policies up front. Denture are a growing and money making market, don't let the cheapskates keep you from earning....

 

[hydent]

yea I did remake the nightguard or repair it I can't remember but I did feel for the guy.

dentor 2010, you have to remember these things (for me anyways) happen very rarely if they happen on a regular basis then you have to asess the problem. There needs to be communication whether it is an exeptable freebie or not they most likely not like the answer if it's not. Any resonable thinking doctor would understand. Many times you have to hold your ground with docs that want everything for free, if they stay they stay if not good riddance. You have to ask yourself would another lab fix this for free most wouldn't so let them go to another lab and try to get away with that, or Send Em Kens way he'll whip em into shape!!!! whatever you do don't let them push you to make rash business decisions like removing a much needed and profitable section from your business.

 

[CYNOSURER]

here's one for ya I had a doc who had just delivered a nightguard that I had made,the patient was walking out of the office and dropped the plastic box as he was walking the nightguard fell out he stepped on it and broke it and the doc wanted me to fix it for free. I said well they really arent suppsed to withstand being stepped on if it broke under normal use ......etc. I ended up fixing the damn thing for free just because I felt bad for the poor bastard who just paid 400 dollars for a nightguard and literally seconds later stepped on it.

Thst's why I like my "No Fault Remake Policy". It doesn't matter whose fault it is...mine, the doc's, the patient, the family dog, UPS, God...remakes are 50%. After a certain period of use 6 months to a year (depending on the appliance) I don't consider them remakes but replacement appliances in which case I charge full price.

 

[CYNOSURER]

Oh, there's also no such thing as a remake on a repair. That's just another repair and at full price...unless I seen some glaring workmanship problem...which I have yet to ever see...yeah, that's the ticket...never seen one...don't believe me? Just ask my wife, Morgan Fairchild.

 

[araucaria]

If anything made in the lab is subsequently modified in any way in the surgery - is the warranty void from that moment ?

I've seen some aggressive adjusting in my time and I just don't see how some jobs can carry a warranty after such abuse to the appliance/product.

 

[kcdt]

If anything made in the lab is subsequently modified in any way in the surgery - is the warranty void from that moment ?

I've seen some aggressive adjusting in my time and I just don't see how some jobs can carry a warranty after such abuse to the appliance/product.

On any Rpd I have a duplicate model to work out POI, so there should be no need for alterations at delivery. Any doc who'd modify a complete denture to fit a now edentulous ridge is an idiot- that's what surgical guides are for.
I wouldn't warranty what they've ground the hell out of.

 

[AJEL]

Looks like everyone is on the same page. 30 steps from the shipping bench or 30 minutes, overall. That a repair on a repair is a repair, should be full charge but U know how we seem to have more empathy than the DDS. The most expensive denture in the world is an add until denture, very colorful, hate doing them but have a lot of them out there. (add a tooth to a flipper until it is a full denture, usually rebase the last add.) If a DDS adjusts a clasp off DDS pays full charge for repair. When a DDS feel that I should take responsibility for someone else's work, I look for another DDS (I don't take the impression!). My work fits the model, only 1 DDS has sent me the head to fit the appliance on. (It came in a big box and was rather bony).
Every lab slip has warranty information printed, and I give no warranty of merchantability.