Trios and Implants: Send Help

[Sarah Downs]

So this is a vague question, but does anyone have any resources I can reach out to to learn more about Trios and implants? There are a hundred videos and help documents about the basic stuff, but I need more expert advice on how to handle implants in Trios, how to manage the software, how to recognize when something is wrong with the order the doctor sends us... even though I feel like I understand a lot about the basic operation of Trios, i feel like I'm constantly tripping on snags, especially when it comes to figuring out implants (and double-especially if the doctor is vague or unhelpful about what implant system they're using).

Does anyone have a really good, in-depth resource I can use to learn about these things? Does anyone have contact information for someone who's kind of an expert that I can talk to one on one? I could call Argen, and they've been pretty helpful from time to time, but calling tech support is kinda weird when I'm basically just wanting to sit down with someone and say "teach me more."

And trust me, I know a lot of this comes with experience and figuring it out the hard way, I'm not just asking for handouts cuz I'm lazy, but I have a very impatient boss who needs me to be an expert now, not later. I'm willing to do a lot of footwork to figure things out, but sometimes chasing around the internet isn't enough. So even if I kinda need to fake it... I'd like to know if there are some people I can talk to to help me.

You guys here have been great, by the way. Usually, if I have a specific question, this forum has been a huge resource for finding answers fast.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

you are right, this is a vague question.

i guess first thing to do is to get comfortable with the process of scanning a model with scan bodies and understanding what it takes to make a case using that data.

understanding then, that there are two geometries for making a case using the Straumann Universal base. very helpful to know, and easily knowable with a hanful of months of implant cases asking to do interesting things.

not only that but also seeing and working with the fruit of your labour; having sat down to assemble your screw-retained crown, or fit the implant base to the abutment.

so the best thing then is to accept every case, duplicate it a bunch of times, and do-redo the case a bunch of ways. practice designing an abutment on one. you'll quickly see the limitations about hole angle. do an anatomy design on another, bring the margins up and down and play with cutting back the facial side. switch platforms and see how far the new base sticks out in the tissue so you can more accurately see why emergence profile is such an important factor.

do you have a dentist who generally sticks to one implant platform?

also, have you read the Implant Primer in our Resources section? not much CADCAM data in there but might prove helpful to get a good 10 minute crash course.

 

[rkm rdt]

Trios Study Club on facebook

 

[rkm rdt]

3 Shape Community

https://www.3shape.com/en/knowledge...mmunity-a-professional-platform-for-knowledge

 

[CoolHandLuke]

lot of self-promotion in that 3shape community though. i havent found it to be useful.

 

[Contraluz]

Trios Study Club on facebook

Would you happen to have a link? Is it the orthodontic study club?

Thanks!

 

[rkm rdt]

lot of self-promotion in that 3shape community though. i havent found it to be useful.

I haven't had time to check it out.
Who thought a lab in a box would be so popular?

 

[rkm rdt]

Would you happen to have a link? Is it the orthodontic study club?

Thanks!

No It's the go to site for all things Trios, some cool dude runs it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1564020223839756/

 

[Contraluz]

No It's the go to site for all things Trios, some cool dude runs it.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1564020223839756/

Appreciate, and request sent!

 

[Contraluz]

some cool dude runs it

I wonder who that is...

 

[Sarah Downs]

you are right, this is a vague question.

i guess first thing to do is to get comfortable with the process of scanning a model with scan bodies and understanding what it takes to make a case using that data.

understanding then, that there are two geometries for making a case using the Straumann Universal base. very helpful to know, and easily knowable with a hanful of months of implant cases asking to do interesting things.

not only that but also seeing and working with the fruit of your labour; having sat down to assemble your screw-retained crown, or fit the implant base to the abutment.

so the best thing then is to accept every case, duplicate it a bunch of times, and do-redo the case a bunch of ways. practice designing an abutment on one. you'll quickly see the limitations about hole angle. do an anatomy design on another, bring the margins up and down and play with cutting back the facial side. switch platforms and see how far the new base sticks out in the tissue so you can more accurately see why emergence profile is such an important factor.

do you have a dentist who generally sticks to one implant platform?

also, have you read the Implant Primer in our Resources section? not much CADCAM data in there but might prove helpful to get a good 10 minute crash course.

Since I'm more of the CAD/CAM support and computer specialist and not actually a technician who designs anything, the things I'm worried about are more on the back end of the software... things like tracking files, fiddling with the scans and order forms, etc... though this is still great info to pass on to the people who actually do the designing.

Currently, we are receiving every different implant under the sun from different doctors. Some doctors consistently send us the same things. Others are trying different ones. I think a few of them would be willing to work with us to get a system we're both comfortable with, but it requires educating the doctors a little one what they need to do, which is where my (supposed) expertise comes in.

I will look through the resources you mentioned, though. The point is basically that I need to sound knowledgeable, at the very least. Even if I'm not.

 

[Affinity]

I think a few of them would be willing to work with us to get a system we're both comfortable with, but it requires educating the doctors a little one what they need to do, which is where my (supposed) expertise comes in.

The point is basically that I need to sound knowledgeable, at the very least. Even if I'm not.

While I admire your hunger to learn and I say this with respect, youre clearly not qualified or comfortable to educate Drs on implants, so why is the lab putting this on you? Im all for fake it till you make it, but I see this as a real problem with large labs today, blind leading the blind. Ultimately, you arent going to get all the answers here, it comes from experience and making mistakes. getting your hands dirty, failing and cussing, and that takes time (welcome to dental technology). Honestly the resources really arent out there other than DLN and a few other places where people are trying to help each other , but mostly you have companies or individuals trying to sell you THEIR solution.(sorry RKM but this is why I left TSC group)

I know this isnt helpful, but your question is pretty vague.

My only advice would be, if youre trying to get the lab on the same platform, find a company like DESS, that have abutments that will work on most everything (and a library for 3shape and exo, which many dont) and convince the majority of the Drs that its 'as good or better' which isnt easy.. (Youre a computer tech, not a sales rep so maybe they should do that) Im not even sure if thats possible to get all your clients on the same page, but maybe a majority.. Please dont take this the wrong way, its just my .02 and Im not charging!

 

[CoolHandLuke]

i think she may simply have to answer questions like "can you make a custom abutment in cocr for my implant if i use the Dess scan body? "

most people would look at you crosseyed for a half minute before stammering "lemme check"

then you check you have compatibility for that platform, and that size, and that material, and that the scan body is already used in that process within 3shape.

if one of the above doesnt get checkmarks, its a no.

 

[Affinity]

So she needs like a flow chart.. Could work for the sake of brevity, most any customer service use these..

 

[Sarah Downs]

A flowchart would definitely help.

Since I'm usually the one scanning things even when it's not a Trios case, it would help to know more about implants in general. I'd like to be prepared, because in the CAD/CAM department, the only thing I don't do is design. I set up cases, scan, mill. I have to be able to look at scan bodies in digital cases and recognize what the implant is. Honestly, I expect sometime down the road, I'll be trained to design (I've looked into it a little bit. I get the basics). For now, my job is to get things set up so that the technician has to do as little as possible on the computer, and to try and explore better workflows so that we can work on being more efficient.

It's a weird job, I know. Lee Culp has a 100% digital 0% designer right hand man who does a lot of the same things I do. The more I find out, the more I realized that knowing some of these things the technicians deal with would be... handy. Especially when we need to tell doctors things like... certain implants are not designed for digital cases at all (like Eztetic).

 

[Affinity]

While Culps non-dental right hand man is something to aspire to , Im sure he is actually willing to train his own employee rather than send him down an online rabbit hole.

Genieoss.com .is the place to go if you want to know the main players in the game and their shapes. If you really want to learn clinical implantology I have a library of books I can dropbox you.. but believe it or not, you are learning with every case you touch.. there really arent too many shortcuts. I cant tell you how many 100 times Ive looked through the nobel catalog and its still easy to get lost and order the wrong parts etc. Ive been designing digital abutments for over 7 years now and Im still figuring it out, its always changing.
Just when you get all your libraries set up, then they come out with new abutments or change scan bodies and you have to buy all new and reset up the library.

You can say that certain implants are not designed for digital 'at all' , but that doesnt mean you cant make a digital crown over it. Think outside the box.

 

[Sarah Downs]

Think outside the box.

Lol, trust me, I'm doing that every day.

And literally every day I'm coming across implants that the technicians have never even seen before, let alone me.

Anyway, I'll just keep doing my best to fake it. I wholeheartedly agree that some actual training and some patience to learn things as they come on my boss's behalf would be great, but he would like an expert ASAP. When he hired me, I was under the impression that he understood I wasn't an expert yet. Doesn't seem to be acting that way now, though.

Thanks for the help guys. I'm stashing these resources and I'm sure they will help me down the road.

 

[RDA]

Would you happen to have a link? Is it the orthodontic study club?

Thanks!

Another club to look at:
3shape Trios And Exocad Club
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1855142728070813/

 

[Hassine]

I can share with you user's manual for trios and implant studio :
Implant studio
Trios

 

[keith goldstein]

Hi Sarah: I can help you with DESS components - scan bodies, ti bases, custom titanium and crco abutments. If I don't know the answer I will direct you to others that have the solutions you are looking for.