time to buy a mill

[Ryan Gottlieb]

I know the question has been posted many times before. i was waiting for the midwinter meeting to end before asking this question.
I have a 3 person lab doing around 25-45 zirconia crowns per week, 15-35 emax press per week and about 10 long span provisionals per year. I am planning to hire one more tech this year and grow a bit more.

I use 3shape D800 for all of my designs and use cap for wax prints and zirconia crowns. I do allot of custom abutments but have no interest in milling titanium in house. i do want to have the ability to mill hybrid crowns. i think i want the mill to be able to use .3mm bur for detailed anatomy.

its way past time to add a mill, but want to make sure i get the right one. the idea of being able to mill emax is very appealing to me. not sure if i would do it for all emax due to cost, but in a pinch it would be great.
I know the Roland is a great dry mill and a work horse. i have been leaning towards that mill for a few years. are there any others that you can recommend?
what are your thoughts on a wet/dry mill for a lab my size?
Feel free to educate me as I am new to the Mill Game.

please no calls or visits from sales reps. Sorry...I'll call you

thanks
Ryan

 

[NicelyMKV]

Imes Icore 250i from CAP will future proof your purchase for the most part

 

[CoolHandLuke]

300-400 series of iMes will accomodate any growth you will want to create, and not limit your ability to hold new blocks of materials to cut.

 

[McTeeth]

I am in the same boat as Ryan. I could of wrote the same thread.

Would love more feedback too

 

[JandBDentalStudio]

The Imes 350i looks pretty amazing! I saw it at DT Technology's suite at Lab Day in Chicago. It was only a prototype but should be in production sometime later this year.

 

[griffmar79]

We picked the dwx-50 from CAP in November. Milled over 300 units now without any complaints. Wet milling doesn't seem to make sense when you have long drying cycles. If i ever do I'll purchase a wet mill that is dedicated. I did have a issue with finishing lines on the units, but was resolved with a new collet. Feel free to PM me if you want

 

[zero_zero]

If you're doing mostly crowns a 4 axis dry mill would suffice... I'd check out the new Roland mill ( it looks good sealed, now got a 4 tool holder, ball screw driven and comes bundled with a CAM )...

 

[Sevan P]

Soo many mills to choose from.

We run two VHF 4 axis mills and we cut a boat load of full zr crowns and emax press, and zr abutments. The VHF mills kick ass for the small foot print they they have.

Now do you truly need a 5axis or can you get by with a 4 axis? Looks as if the Roland is goto machine but now with all the newer mills coming out it might change. The DWX-4 is out of the question if you want to do a decent volume of work and long span bridges.

The new Imes 350i with disk changer is looking real good.

Give up on milling e.max, they cost is not right for huge production, better to mill and press for high volume, but the quick turn around single unit cases it makes sense but the cost of the Weiland wet mill landing in around 65k with a 8 disk changer looked real nice in action.

Just make sure you do your research before you purchase.

What exactly do you plan on milling in house and what to you plan on sending out? Also keep in mind the sintering oven you purchase is key as well. If you plan on cutting long span bridges, make sure the oven can sinter them as well. it is not just about the mill. The custom abutment you do, are they heavy angle designs? If so and you want to mill them in house a 5 axis is needed or else you will be doing a lot of post cleaning in the green state to correct the uncut areas. other then that milling 3-8 unit bridges can be done with a 4 axis no problem.

What CAM you plan on running? Sum3D? Work NC?

A little bit more info would help.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Do you think a used Roland DWX50 with SUM3D, block holder for lava ultimate with strategies and a vac is worth $25,000?

 

[sirmorty]

I guess it depends on how many hours it has on it but it seems like a pretty fair price.

 

[KentPWalton]

Do you think a used Roland DWX50 with SUM3D, block holder for lava ultimate with strategies and a vac is worth $25,000?

Depending on the hours...sounds like a pretty good deal to me!

 

[McTeeth]

I am personally leaning towards the Roland 50 or another dry 5 axis, so I can have the ability to mill abutments.

I'm just wondering if another Roland 5 axis is around the corner as the DWX-50 has been out for a few years, and we all know how companies like to bring new equipment to market frequently and upgrade

 

[Terry Whitty]

I am personally leaning towards the Roland 50 or another dry 5 axis, so I can have the ability to mill abutments.

I'm just wondering if another Roland 5 axis is around the corner as the DWX-50 has been out for a few years, and we all know how companies like to bring new equipment to market frequently and upgrade

The Roland does what it does well, so its doubtful there is a machine around the corner.

 

[BobCDT]

If you're doing mostly crowns a 4 axis dry mill would suffice... I'd check out the new Roland mill ( it looks good sealed, now got a 4 tool holder, ball screw driven and comes bundled with a CAM )...

And Cost only $18K. Add suction, starter kit and everything else it runs about $24K.

 

[BobCDT]

I am personally leaning towards the Roland 50 or another dry 5 axis, so I can have the ability to mill abutments.

I'm just wondering if another Roland 5 axis is around the corner as the DWX-50 has been out for a few years, and we all know how companies like to bring new equipment to market frequently and upgrade

I am not up on Roland's development plans. But, I would suggest that they hit the ball out of the park with the DWX50. No need to reinvent a great product.

 

[BobCDT]

Do you think a used Roland DWX50 with SUM3D, block holder for lava ultimate with strategies and a vac is worth $25,000?

Jason normal pricing, about $40K. Find out how many hours are on the mill and when it was purchased. The mill comes with a 2 year warranty. If it has time left on the warrant and the usage is say, less than 1500 hours I think the deal is fair.

 

[sirmorty]

Hmm, I think they did a good job by adding the 4 tool changer on the DWX-4 but it seems like a pretty big oversite on their part to only allow the 4 tools to be used only on the small blocks.

"Confirmed that you can not use 4 tools with the large material holder. So, 4 tools on a single restoration or 2 tools with the large holder or multi-block holder"
"You can use 4 tools with pin mounted material so if you use a large pin mounted block you could do a 3 unit bridge"

But that being said, It's still looks like a great option.
I would like to have one.

 

[KentPWalton]

Hmm, I think they did a good job by adding the 4 tool changer on the DWX-4 but it seems like a pretty big oversite on their part to only allow the 4 tools to be used only on the small blocks.

"Confirmed that you can not use 4 tools with the large material holder. So, 4 tools on a single restoration or 2 tools with the large holder or multi-block holder"
"You can use 4 tools with pin mounted material so if you use a large pin mounted block you could do a 3 unit bridge"

But that being said, It's still looks like a great option.
I would like to have one.

I actually brought that up to Glen at Roland in this thread. This is what he said.

http://dentallabnetwork.com/forums/...ries-4-station-atc-and-multi-pin-clamp.17089/

 

[French Cadman]

Take time, electronics problems on 250i ..
2 machines in France go back to Germany this week …
After 6 months used ….

 

[charles007]

Take time, electronics problems on 250i ..
2 machines in France go back to Germany this week …
After 6 months used ….

These 250i's were the first released mills sold... guess you could call them the first generation 250i.
Any 250i being sold now are improved ? no clue what changes/improvements were made. I do remember hearing about cosmetic change many moons ago, and guess that was part of the improvements made ?
I assume imes will make all the improvements to these mills from France and I bet that's why they had to be shipped back to Germany.

350i may be out by the end of this year..