Three e.max questions

[user name]

1) Where has sixonice gone? He always had great info.
a. I always am curious when someone disappears. Ive also tried to contact kcdt..hope youre well.

2) Someone in the last couple weeks had mentioned about pressing parameters, that the ingots value would be changed if you press at the lowest temp to get a complete pressing vs. going a few degrees higher. Any truth to that?
Im pressing with great results, but am doing a crown over a skinny implant abutment and dont want to risk snapping it off during the press, so I raised the temp a few degrees thinking the 'goo' will flow into the ring easier.

3) Ive been using some of the empress stain pastes on e.max as well as GC Initial NF. Ivoclar has both the regular glaze as well as the fluorescent. Can the fluorescent glaze be used with inline porcelain? How can you tell if various glazes 'fluoress'? My main question is one of economy...Can I just use one stain/glaze pallet with all the products/colors I like from e.max, inline, GC, empress together and use them all on both inline porc. and e.max?

 

[TheLabGuy]

1) Where has sixonice gone? He always had great info.
a. I always am curious when someone disappears. Ive also tried to contact kcdt..hope youre well.

Sixonice is an Ivoclar rep. Once that was brought out he vanished. I agree with you, so what, he had good info. to pass around, especially when some of us long term members first started this e.max journey he was a tremendous help....so Six Pack if you're out there, it would be great to see you post again.

kcdt is probably my fault. Although I haven't seen him on many of the forums lately. He's probably still ticked off over the politics/religious thread and I've gone back over that and was clearly an ass in it, typical for my shoot from the hip style. As I said before Ken, I know I can be an @sshole and more than happy to admit that and I say I'm sorry, even if you don't want to hear it. To bad really, because as I've always said his occlusal knowledge is top tier.

 

[ed 3]

As I said before Ken, I know I can be an @sshole and more than happy to admit that and I say I'm sorry, even if you don't want to hear it. To bad really, because as I've always said his occlusal knowledge is top tier.

In a way, a certain amount of self-criticism is a good thing, because it keeps you humble. Realizing that no matter what success you've achieved, you can still make enemies makes you humble, too.
p.s. TheLabGuy you are not been @sshole,just stop it! Some characters on this forum made much more destruction than you are with self-promotional, antilabor,greedy, jerk-like posts. That is not just mine opinion about this forum latest trend.

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

We haven't messed with adjusting our pressing parameters to alter the value. We use to have problems with pressing e.Max on small preps/abutments. We fixed that problem by using a ceramic pin to reinforce the investment inside the pressing. I sprue up crowns where this might be a problem so that the sprue is flowing in the same direction as the prep, if possible. then the crowns are put in the ring so that cavity inside the wax patterns are more or less vertical. I fill up the ring with investment just to the top of the wax pattern...i use a small instrument to "leak" investment into the wax pattern...once the pattern is full of investment, I insert the ceramic pin into the wax pattern...then I fill the ring up the rest of the way and press as normal. We have had zero failures once we started employing this method. Six may have been the one that presented it on this forum first a few months ago.

 

[user name]

We haven't messed with adjusting our pressing parameters to alter the value. We use to have problems with pressing e.Max on small preps/abutments. We fixed that problem by using a ceramic pin to reinforce the investment inside the pressing. I sprue up crowns where this might be a problem so that the sprue is flowing in the same direction as the prep, if possible. then the crowns are put in the ring so that cavity inside the wax patterns are more or less vertical. I fill up the ring with investment just to the top of the wax pattern...i use a small instrument to "leak" investment into the wax pattern...once the pattern is full of investment, I insert the ceramic pin into the wax pattern...then I fill the ring up the rest of the way and press as normal. We have had zero failures once we started employing this method. Six may have been the one that presented it on this forum first a few months ago.

What pins are you using?

 

[NicelyMKV]

1) Where has sixonice gone? He always had great info.
a. I always am curious when someone disappears. Ive also tried to contact kcdt..hope youre well.

2) Someone in the last couple weeks had mentioned about pressing parameters, that the ingots value would be changed if you press at the lowest temp to get a complete pressing vs. going a few degrees higher. Any truth to that?
Im pressing with great results, but am doing a crown over a skinny implant abutment and dont want to risk snapping it off during the press, so I raised the temp a few degrees thinking the 'goo' will flow into the ring easier.

3) Ive been using some of the empress stain pastes on e.max as well as GC Initial NF. Ivoclar has both the regular glaze as well as the fluorescent. Can the fluorescent glaze be used with inline porcelain? How can you tell if various glazes 'fluoress'? My main question is one of economy...Can I just use one stain/glaze pallet with all the products/colors I like from e.max, inline, GC, empress together and use them all on both inline porc. and e.max?

Don't hold me to it, but I thought a technician named Brad Jones? was talking about adjusting the high temp to alter the opacity. I thought the higher the more trans? Someone had also mentioned opacity being effected by the tools you finished the surface with. A rubber wheel vs a green stone for example.

You can use fluo glaze on inline but it is really made specifically for the non naturally fluorescing lithium disilicate emax material. Emax Ceram, inline and dsign ceramics and empress leucite materials all fluoresce. Emax core material itself does not. I really like the inline paste glaze for inline. Just don't speed up the dry time.

The manufacturer should specify if their glaze is a fluorescent material or not. I am pretty sure the GC Lustre pastes are and I know the Emax Paste stains and fluo glaze are. I used Diazir stains for awhile on my Diazir FCZ but had to use the Emax Fluo glaze due to Diazir's glaze not being a fluorescent material. Zr does not fluoresce either.

Jason

 

[paulg100]

"Im pressing with great results, but am doing a crown over a skinny implant abutment and dont want to risk snapping it off during the press"

its the angle of the sprue thats important (ie 90 degrees) with those thin patterns, not the temp of the material.

Temp altering translucency sounds viable (at the expense of more reaction layer?). Personally its taken me along time to learn the opacities and what thickness's will mask what etc. The last thing id want to do is start throwing more variables into the mix.

As for changing it depending on what you use to finish the surface, i dont think so.

 

[SandRLab]

Does anyone have a BL1 emax ingot for sale or trade??

 

[Brett Hansen CDT]

What pins are you using?

G-Cera Ceramic Pin from GC. It is a refractory dowel pin.

 

[capickettcdt]

I'm not the IVOCLAR guy but I'm going to throw my 2 cents in while you are all talking...... Lithium disilicate is glass....not feldspathic, but it is glass. The same basic principles still apply to it no matter what, that is; time and temperature. If you increase the firing temp of ceramic materials you get more translucency (look at the DLP article by Tim Tyndall last fall),try it! I guess my inclination would be to take an ingot and run a test, or take a used button and try it. Asking the question is nobel and appropriate but he OLD GUYS used to experiment ALOT to get things right. It seems (after tons of phone calls) that the new folks are unwilling to take the time to test.
Your thoughts

Also... a short story;
A lab guy called after 5 pressing failures on a lower anterior 4 unit. Dr had done the classic 'pencil lead' preps and the investment kept fracturing during the press. A manufacturers rep had suggested to the lab guy that there was a problem with the investment (if your reps aren't lab techs.try another source for information). I suggested, that just like casting alloy for a UCLA abutment (that is where the ceramic rods came into play years ago...so good call on the investment support!) he needed to increase the fluidity of the glass and reduce the velocity of the entry. Unfortunately his new fancy press furnace did not allow him to controll it. He found one to use where he could controll those aspects and the bridge pressed the first time he tried.
This problem needed some thought, some material science, some background and a willingness to test.
Once again new technology is wonderfull...untill we lose the understanding of our materials.
Again...your thoughts.

 

[user name]

Does anyone have a BL1 emax ingot for sale or trade??

Not sure, but I heard Ivoclar sells them.

 

[rkm rdt]

I have many used ingots for sale.

 

[biodentg]

G-Cera Zirconia Pin from GC is a good idea, I'll use it next time. Pictures show the way I used to press in this situation.

 

[Toast]

Back when E2 first came out it wasn't uncommon to accidentally press it at 1075C. The E2 would press almost clear. So I'd have to agree higher temps increase translucency and unfortunately reaction layer too.

 

[RileyS]

We press anything w no probs of breakage. Our probs r tiny bubbles and voids that randomly press. They're real small but show up once u pass over them or glaze. Anyone know what's up there. Im calling iboclar tomorrow as well. As far as opacaity, Tom Moore explained their process for controlling it in one of the pressing forums.

 

[GAP]

1)
3) Ive been using some of the empress stain pastes on e.max as well as GC Initial NF. How can you tell if various glazes 'fluoress'?
I too could never tell the difference between crowns I glazed w/ reg paste vs fluo paste. The only way I can think to confirm the fluorescence is to put it under a blacklight.

My main question is one of economy...Can I just use one stain/glaze pallet with all the products/colors I like from e.max, inline, GC, empress together and use them all on both inline porc. and e.max?

Luster paste is good to use with inline and e.max. It's got a wide cte (6.9-13.3).

I've used empress shades/glazes with e.max when I first started and had no problems...yet. I know a tech with 30yrs under his belt that uses empress universal shades/glaze for d.sign--maybe it'll work with inline as well?I think he may have seen the word 'universal' and assumed it would work on all his ceramic material.

Its seems you want to know where the line is between, a company trying to sell you a product to boost sales vs selling a product because you genuinely need it.

Its a good question, but one I can't answer definitively. I hope you got something out of what I know others have done.

 

[Mike2]

My two cents on these issues are as follows:
Firstly the higher the temp the more trans as the pressing temp of EMAX is so high I believe I was told it actually starts to burn up the pigmentation. Secondly, the finishing tools would effect the surface texture, so it could change the way the final glaze looks. As far as supporting the implants during the pressing, I believe the most important is equalizing pressure as shown in pictures above, you will never get the resulting ceramic to look right if you raise the temp to a level that it will change its consistency from cold honey. The reaction layer to my understanding is the quartz in the investment actually melting and bonding to the pressing, so raising it a lot higher will result in a thicker reaction layer. In addition don't use used ingot to test theories as they have gone through a chemical reaction already and will not represent truly what happens with a new ingot. Lastly, the best information is usually found from the tech reps in our industry, for me it is Kennedy Hawkhurst at IvoclAR, I am sure he will be in Chicago, but you'll have to talk away from the booth or table for real answers.

 

[NicelyMKV]

Good stuff Mike

 

[senthildtech]

emax is emax but what we have to do for discolouretion teeth? guide me please?

 

[NicelyMKV]

Here is a full mouth I am working on now. Yikes!