scanners what to buy

[GAP]

OK I may do that. But if bought a medit blue maybe I should look into that too.

On ebay i saw a medit blue 'lite' version that was really inexpensive. Click here

 

[skdawl]

Yes in NC. We do about 600 units a year right now. So I know I need to get more involved in the digital world. Plus I am a control freak so it's never good enough. Just don't know what other labs use and what are the good and bad of the systems. But basically just doing singles and bridges now. But don't want a system that I will be tossing out in a year or two. So that's why I am asking the experts here.

Keep in mind he stated he does 600 units a year and this is his first scanner. I would not recommend 3shape at all. If he is going to accept scan files from a Dr who does not use trios he will have to pay 6k just for all scans alone. And didn't 3shape users get locked out of their implant libraries in March due to FDA? Exocad, open system, pick your poison. Eh hem not Jensen...

 

[2oothguy]

Keep in mind he stated he does 600 units a year and this is his first scanner. I would not recommend 3shape at all. If he is going to accept scan files from a Dr who does not use trios he will have to pay 6k just for all scans alone. And didn't 3shape users get locked out of their implant libraries in March due to FDA? Exocad, open system, pick your poison. Eh hem not Jensen...

Thanks this is the kind of things I need to know. I don't have time to buy a unit that's not going to make me money. I sure in the hell am not going to want to pay six grand a yr to use my $15000 equipment that I bust my ass to pay for. So merit blue I think it is. So now just need to find a company that can offer me a good price and great training. That's a must don't need a paper weight.

 

[MAFCDL]

Another aspect to this decision is your long term planning from a business stand point. You are doing 600 units a year now, but what about when you are at 1200, or 3000? I can only assume that your 5 year plan is to grow your business. If growth is your objective, spend some time thinking about the lab you want to be, not the lab you are. (That sounds a lot more 'Zen' than it should). What scanner can you grow into? Which fits your next step in growth? Which larger lab out there do you aspire to be like? - which system are they using and why?

Success in the lab space is predicated on a much higher level of thinking now than was needed in the past. We aren't talking about buying a new porcelain kit for a couple thousand that even if you don't like, you can find a way to use it up. Technology like this is forcing labs to build in-depth, long-term plans.

No one knows your lab better than you, and the fact that you have made it to a size where you can consider these technologies is a major accomplishment. You are doing the right thing by educating yourself, I just know it can be hard to view things in a long term perspective when you probably have 75 case pans in front of you that are due by the end of this week.

I've had the chance to go head to head with the different ways of looking at the lab by working with my Father - his 36 years as a CDT versus my MBA - let me tell you it has made for some heated discussions - but in the end it has become obvious that a combination of both is necessary to still be here in 5 years.

 

[2oothguy]

Another aspect to this decision is your long term planning from a business stand point. You are doing 600 units a year now, but what about when you are at 1200, or 3000? I can only assume that your 5 year plan is to grow your business. If growth is your objective, spend some time thinking about the lab you want to be, not the lab you are. (That sounds a lot more 'Zen' than it should). What scanner can you grow into? Which fits your next step in growth? Which larger lab out there do you aspire to be like? - which system are they using and why?

Success in the lab space is predicated on a much higher level of thinking now than was needed in the past. We aren't talking about buying a new porcelain kit for a couple thousand that even if you don't like, you can find a way to use it up. Technology like this is forcing labs to build in-depth, long-term plans.

No one knows your lab better than you, and the fact that you have made it to a size where you can consider these technologies is a major accomplishment. You are doing the right thing by educating yourself, I just know it can be hard to view things in a long term perspective when you probably have 75 case pans in front of you that are due by the end of this week.

I've had the chance to go head to head with the different ways of looking at the lab by working with my Father - his 36 years as a CDT versus my MBA - let me tell you it has made for some heated discussions - but in the end it has become obvious that a combination of both is necessary to still be here in 5 years.

Thanks a bunch. Trying to get up to speed here. Already feel like I am way to far behind and it is starting to effect my zen. I know there is a great group of guys here. So I was hoping someone would lead me in the right direction. And your on the money it's hard to think to far ahead when your slammed with work. But I know I need to. I have hopefully about 20 more years in the lab. Been in it since I was 18. 27 years now. Been training my son and hopefully he will continue to grow and take over one day. He loves it as much as me. But I fear technology may put a lot of us out of business one day. Let's just hope its a very long time away.

 

[CoolHandLuke]

we have had this discussion before, at length.

many feel the technology won't "put you out of business" so much as "redefine your business experience"

the tech is not artificially intelligent; it doesnt do work all by itself.

but it is necessary when investing in new materials such as zirconia and emax. they shrink when fired, so they have to be precision manufactured.

people doing cast chrome partials will always be doing them. that workflow hasn't changed. yes it is possible to 3d print the frame straight in cocr but it is both highly expensive, and needs hand finishing. apart from the wow factor of being 3d printed theres no real savings of time or labour.

CADCAM is a tool, it is how you use it that defines what your business will be doing in 20 years.

if you are good at cadcam now, you're prepared for the next phase of tech development.

if you arent, you are probably still looking for a solution to your own lab's future.

being a tool its as good as the operator; so no it won't give skilled jobs to monkeys. not until artificial intelligence is born.

what is it you want CADCAM to do for you? make production more consistent? more flexible? more cost effective? time effective? labor saving?

each of those above questions has a specific definition for what you will want the CADCAM workflow to do.

basically, define the parameters of what you want to CADCAM to accomplish and that will launch you into a new experience as a lab.

but with that said theres a lot that some lab owners don't understand about the tech; if you don't know whats possible you will never have any idea of what you are inspired to do.

my final bit of advice will be to visit a tech show or two this year. watch some youtube videos of IDT or chicago. see the possiblities and evaluate them as they pertain to your business.

 

[MC Reusable Articulators]

A little biased I am, but have to say it. In addition to the scanner, the articulator you use has to be easy to detach from the model so you can scan models with ease, WITHOUT having to reset the bite when you put it back on.

 

[2oothguy]

we have had this discussion before, at length.

many feel the technology won't "put you out of business" so much as "redefine your business experience"

the tech is not artificially intelligent; it doesnt do work all by itself.

but it is necessary when investing in new materials such as zirconia and emax. they shrink when fired, so they have to be precision manufactured.

people doing cast chrome partials will always be doing them. that workflow hasn't changed. yes it is possible to 3d print the frame straight in cocr but it is both highly expensive, and needs hand finishing. apart from the wow factor of being 3d printed theres no real savings of time or labour.

CADCAM is a tool, it is how you use it that defines what your business will be doing in 20 years.

if you are good at cadcam now, you're prepared for the next phase of tech development.

if you arent, you are probably still looking for a solution to your own lab's future.

being a tool its as good as the operator; so no it won't give skilled jobs to monkeys. not until artificial intelligence is born.

what is it you want CADCAM to do for you? make production more consistent? more flexible? more cost effective? time effective? labor saving?

each of those above questions has a specific definition for what you will want the CADCAM workflow to do.

basically, define the parameters of what you want to CADCAM to accomplish and that will launch you into a new experience as a lab.

but with that said theres a lot that some lab owners don't understand about the tech; if you don't know whats possible you will never have any idea of what you are inspired to do.

my final bit of advice will be to visit a tech show or two this year. watch some youtube videos of IDT or chicago. see the possiblities and evaluate them as they pertain to your business.

Thank you will do. Great advise

 

[2oothguy]

A little biased I am, but have to say it. In addition to the scanner, the articulator you use has to be easy to detach from the model so you can scan models with ease, WITHOUT having to reset the bite when you put it back on.

Yes we do this already. Been outsourcing everything now.

 

[MC Reusable Articulators]

Yes we do this already. Been outsourcing everything now.

Which one are you using? Ours?

 

[CoolHandLuke]

Yes we do this already. Been outsourcing everything now.

@rkm rdt will be able to tell you that outsourcing can work as a business model.

when RKM got his D800 it was him and his wife servicing a small pool of dentists in the same building.

he sent all the work out for finishing - gold, pfm, zirconia, everything. it all went out to various companies. this meant he could sell the gold, spend more time in porcelain, and build the lab by adding clients.

eventually he got enough for a Trios unit, now he spends his time scanning patients and sending model work out for 3dprinting. at the same time the same framework or zirconia is sent someplace else.

now he puts the stain and glaze and can go home at a decent hour.

outsourcing doesnt have to end for your business to leap into cadcam.

 

[2oothguy]

N

@rkm rdt will be able to tell you that outsourcing can work as a business model.

when RKM got his D800 it was him and his wife servicing a small pool of dentists in the same building.

he sent all the work out for finishing - gold, pfm, zirconia, everything. it all went out to various companies. this meant he could sell the gold, spend more time in porcelain, and build the lab by adding clients.

eventually he got enough for a Trios unit, now he spends his time scanning patients and sending model work out for 3dprinting. at the same time the same framework or zirconia is sent someplace else.

now he puts the stain and glaze and can go home at a decent hour.

outsourcing doesnt have to end for your business to leap into cadcam.

no outsourcing will in my opinion never end for me anyway. Just want more control and the ability to keep things in house as much as possible. Want the flexibility to use who I need to get the best product for my clients. With the intent to mill and design and use the best product on the market. Decrease turn around times too.

 

[2oothguy]

Which one are you using? Ours?

I use clear quads most of the time from B&D Supply.
Also accutrac system

 

[sndmn2]

I'm in the same boat. This will be my first scanner purchase. I do about 35 units a month that require zirconia. Another 20 or so Emax. Another 40 or so PFM. So roughly 80-90 crowns a month. Not much in the way of implants. 2-3 a month. I'm 58. I outsource model and wax work when things backup. I would use the scanner for the zirk work..and would venture into slm for metal copings. In Chicago the scanners look nice. Flirting with either the d850 or the medit. But seriously for my low volume, my future work life. 10-12 years is it worth the expense of the latest greatest ? I'm beginning to think last years models at a reduced cost would be better for me. If the need arises I could always upgrade. Thoughts ? Thanks

 

[MC Reusable Articulators]

I use clear quads most of the time from B&D Supply.
Also accutrac system

you really should have a look at my profile.

 

[sndmn2]

you really should have a look at my profile.

Are you Mourice from MI. ?

 

[MC Reusable Articulators]

Are you Mourice from MI. ?

His son

 

[CoolHandLuke]

some call you the son of the gangster of love ?

 

[2thm8kr]

some call you the son of the gangster of love ?

No, Maurice.

 

[MC Reusable Articulators]

some call you the son of the gangster of love ?

LOL had to look that one up! To quote another famous line (from a movie) "You are nearer than you think"