pressing emax

[CRWNMKR]

we use the vacalon plungers with no problem at all

 

[Matrix]

I kind of figure that Ivoclar has a better understanding on what works best with their products.

What drives us as techs to work a product outside of the instructions? Do we think that we can save time if we figure a way to do things differently than what the manufacture has developed? I know I have been guilty of this many many times over the years and on the most technique sensitive of products this often leads to failures. Having my team understand that its imperative to follow specific protocol based on manufactures recommendations most definitely has made me sleep better at night.

As we start to do our in house tests on PFT, I have reminded my staff that there is a very critical protocol to this product. Being very technique sensitive I have made it very very clear that we will do everything by the book with ZERO exceptions.

OK I got a bit off topic here...

I have used disposable plungers in the past but always come back to using the alox ones. Disposable are faster to de-vest and they don't require the lube which is good. However, I always thought if it was better than Ivoclar would have developed a disposable first as it would be another recurring product that would be necessary. Seems like with all the EMAX being pressed these days they would definitely be selling a bunch.

I just had to make the following observation. I know this is far afield from press ceramics, but... I did use disposable diapers for both of my kids without any discernable shortcomings. My decision to use disposables was contrary with the older powers to be, and the way of doing things. Sometimes obsolescence is a better way? Or did Grandma know the product best? LOL!

 

[amadent]

:help:2 I will post pic a soon as model work is done
but i wanted to get the ? out to you guys asap

i have a single lateral and k-9, dr. has to reimpression the k-9
The prep is very tiny, I need to make up about 4mm of incisial room and around 1mm facial on the lateral-
can i do this in EMAX ?

 

[JohnWilson]

I just had to make the following observation. I know this is far afield from press ceramics, but... I did use disposable diapers for both of my kids without any discernable shortcomings. My decision to use disposables was contrary with the older powers to be, and the way of doing things. Sometimes obsolescence is a better way? Or did Grandma know the product best? LOL!

Although the point makes no rational correlation I still laughed.

The point I was trying to make is IVOCLAR is in the business to make money, which do you think they could make more money with, disposable plungers or ALOX ones? If the system could have the same or better results with a disposable wouldn't it make more sense for them to go this route???

 

[Matrix]

Although the point makes no rational correlation I still laughed.

The point I was trying to make is IVOCLAR is in the business to make money, which do you think they could make more money with, disposable plungers or ALOX ones? If the system could have the same or better results with a disposable wouldn't it make more sense for them to go this route???

And you are quite right. I just placed an order for 50 disposable Vacalon plungers with Zahn for $58.99 plus shipping. That check will go to Vacalon via Zahn and not to Ivoclar Vivadent. The point I was attempting to make in a humorous and non associated way is this.
If, dental techs always work within the manufactures guidelines then we go nowhere but in a circle. Yes, a successful circle but still nowhere but back to the beginning, starting again with step number one in the manufactures guidelines.
I have always encouraged techs to experiment and develop new techniques which will ultimately lead to new and improved products. Innovation is the product of a stimulated and unconfined mind, working outside the box of conformity. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[doug]

Maybe I'm glad you're not my Honda technician. I want to car to work as it is intended.

 

[TheLabGuy]

:help:2 I will post pic a soon as model work is done
but i wanted to get the ? out to you guys asap

i have a single lateral and k-9, dr. has to reimpression the k-9
The prep is very tiny, I need to make up about 4mm of incisial room and around 1mm facial on the lateral-
can i do this in EMAX ?

Yeah you can, I've made them over 10mm before to see if I could....looks like fun.

 

[Al.]

And you are quite right. I just placed an order for 50 disposable Vacalon plungers with Zahn for $58.99 plus shipping.

That can get expensive.
I press over 50 rings a month.

I have 15 plungers Ive been using for 5 years.

 

[amadent]

Yeah you can, I've made them over 10mm before to see if I could....looks like fun.

then EMAX it is, i will post pics when case is finished with a little luck maybe i can get my doc to send me a few pics of the case in the mouth

 

[paulg100]

"i have a single lateral and k-9, dr. has to reimpression the k-9
The prep is very tiny, I need to make up about 4mm of incisial room and around 1mm facial on the lateral-
can i do this in EMAX ? "

I think tiny preps are fine for emax providing your bonding.

If this was a small post or implant abutment where you had to make up alot of room i would switch to zirconia.

 

[SiKBOY]

I kind of figure that Ivoclar has a better understanding on what works best with their products.

What drives us as techs to work a product outside of the instructions? Do we think that we can save time if we figure a way to do things differently than what the manufacture has developed? I know I have been guilty of this many many times over the years and on the most technique sensitive of products this often leads to failures. Having my team understand that its imperative to follow specific protocol based on manufactures recommendations most definitely has made me sleep better at night.

As we start to do our in house tests on PFT, I have reminded my staff that there is a very critical protocol to this product. Being very technique sensitive I have made it very very clear that we will do everything by the book with ZERO exceptions.
.

I'm not too sure if I agree with this. In my old lab, we use to use microstar as an investment. I think the set time in the instructions for it was 15 minutes by memory. I was always testing out the limits (and pushing past the limits) of the products that we used and eventually got it down to 7 minute set time with 15 minutes(instead of 30 mins) in the burnout furnace before casting.

Also pushed the maximum wax weight that you can use with 1 ingot with the pressings that we did. Even with that, if the wax weight was a bit over the inhouse testing of the limit, we would cut down some old sprue buttons and add that on top of the ingots so we wouldn't have to waste another ingot just for 0.1 or 0.2 grams of wax patterns.

I remember way back in the empress days, we used the empress ingots and also the empress investment. The empress investment was so expsensive and the detail you get from it wasn't that good. The microstar was way cheaper and the investments were more accurate.

The boss used to love us trying out new things and products and pushing their limits because it saved him money and saved us time.

 

[SiKBOY]

And you are quite right. I just placed an order for 50 disposable Vacalon plungers with Zahn for $58.99 plus shipping. That check will go to Vacalon via Zahn and not to Ivoclar Vivadent. The point I was attempting to make in a humorous and non associated way is this.
If, dental techs always work within the manufactures guidelines then we go nowhere but in a circle. Yes, a successful circle but still nowhere but back to the beginning, starting again with step number one in the manufactures guidelines.
I have always encouraged techs to experiment and develop new techniques which will ultimately lead to new and improved products. Innovation is the product of a stimulated and unconfined mind, working outside the box of conformity. Just my 2 cents worth.

Agreed, I'm always mixing porcelains and firing cycles and hold times etc to get different effects. Some work and some come out really bad. Its all fun though pushing and discovering new things.

 

[SiKBOY]

Maybe I'm glad you're not my Honda technician. I want to car to work as it is intended.

Hey Doug, I drive a honda too! You might be happy to hear that I have gotten an extra 150 km's out of a tank of petrol by putting an aftermarket computer in it. The computer has already paid for itself with the savings that I have made from not filling up as often.

Let me know if you want more details.

 

[sixonice]

pushing the envelope is always interesting and it's cool to hear the success stories out there. but on the other side of that i am sure there is a story of failures, lost money, lost time, etc. because of pushing the envelope and not following instructions. bottom line is it comes down to if you like to gamble.

 

[charles007]

My theory is,
If it doesn't work... read the directions. hehe


Sorry, I'm with John with emax, do everything by the book with ZERO exceptions, 100% of the time.
In 23 months of pressing emax only with my ep5000, I've had Zero bad presses, 100% success.....Just wish I had jumped on the emax train earlier.....

 

[amadent]

we have begun pressing emax with some great restoratins and some failures
is anyone having any problems pressing with computer generated waxups ?
we are scanning our full contours in our dental wings
the paterns are fabricated in a 3-shape wax printer

iam pressing in a zubler vario-press 300
this is my cycle- 200 gram
start temp 700"c
heat rate 60"c
final temp 915"c
hold time 24 minutes
press time 10 minutes
pressure - low
vacum level- 730mm
opening time :30

 

[dmonwaxa]

I see two things off the bat:

1. Rounded margins: cold press; mold not hot enough or press temp and time, or margin was not adressed prior to pressing.

2. Pattern looks over expanded: Investment L ratio; miximg time; burnout high temp and hold time.

3. What size ingot, large? Thats a lot of waste.

If patterns fit snugly before pressing then look into the cause and possible solutions in 1 & 2 above.

 

[user name]

You could have done those in a 100gm ring and used a small ingot. 200gm cycle needs to be about 100c hotter.

 

[amadent]

thank you for input and ideas
margins were sealed on dies in wax up
investment/water ratio = 12.5 liquid/ 12.5 water - 1st fwe press were alittle loose
burn out 1hr 20 min hight temp of 1600

yes there is alot of waste paterns were right on border as far as weight- to lazy to slit an ingot- ingot size-3grams

 

[dmonwaxa]

With regards to investment and over expansion make sure you're not over mixing; also you could try using 1-2 ml less "special liquid"

With regards to temp you may consider increasing press temp 5-10 deg C and or increase the press cycle time 1-2 min at minimum.