Pontic side magin getting lifted after slodering

[wk2012wk]

Any solution?

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[doug]

Too much heat. Cool the flame and take your time. Are you keeping the margin in the investment?

 

[wk2012wk]

What would be the proper psi for oxygen

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[CatamountRob]

It probably depends what you are using for a torch/tip. Burying the margins in investment to insulate them from the heat is the most important thing.

 

[wk2012wk]

I'm using whip mix soldering investment. Anybody else using this?

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[2thm8kr]

I'm using whip mix soldering investment. Anybody else using this?

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I used Hi-Heat for years. No trouble. I loved that stuff.

 

[wk2012wk]

I found out that 2 kind of soldering investment from whip mix. Soldering investment and hi heat. Previous metal manager ordered soldering investment. I need to try hi heat. I guess hi heat is the right one for c&b work.

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[2thm8kr]

I found out that 2 kind of soldering investment from whip mix. Soldering investment and hi heat. Previous metal manager ordered soldering investment. I need to try hi heat. I guess hi heat is the right one for c&b work.

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I think they have a product called Speed-E for soldering too. It's been a long time since I had to solder.

 

[wk2012wk]

I only have 2 options for rocking framework. Hammer or solder. For me soldered bridge fits better than hammered one. Success rate of 80%.

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[CatamountRob]

I used to use the Whip Mix Hi Heat, now I just use my regular casting investment (Powercast) and mix it with the least amount of water it takes to make it stick together.

 

[charles007]

I only have 2 options for rocking framework. Hammer or solder. For me soldered bridge fits better than hammered one. Success rate of 80%.

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High heat soldering investment or use regular investment for ceramic alloys using straight water, no special liquid. Margins must be covered up with joints totally open...
Soldering is all about having even heat all over the frame, not just the joints with low heat, preheated hot investment....
Use soldering tip only ! can't remember the very low setting with the torch, turn way down with no loud hissing sound.....

Edit,, I guess I misunderstood your question ?... margin lifting.... do you mean movement.. I thought you meant you melted the margins.... lol sorry

 

[wk2012wk]

Oh no melted margin. Slightly lifted margin interproximally

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[gallagerdental]

I use Whip Mix Hi-Heat also. I switched over from using HiTemp casting investment for soldering. Had found problems with fit from latter. No prob. Since, but you have to follow liquid to powder ratios carefully. I use distilled water also. After mix I let it bench set for at least 1/2 hr. Put it in oven or more often just on Bunsen burner until luting has burned off completely. I then transfer to soldering block. I have city gas/ oxygen torch. I set ox. On lowest setting between 0 and first "notch". I start by heating paddy first watch it turn from grey to white. Once paddy is all the same color, I proceed to heat up bridge, starting at longest section or most metal(pontics) first. I then run flame over all. Keep in mind any solder will flow if surrounding metal is hot enough, not the solder. It's supposed to suck in the solder , capillary action. As mentioned above, cover margins & cut down heat, heat cone should be about 1/2 to 3/4 inch long. With a little practice it will work out for you. Good luck. Sorry for length of this thread, but hope this helps.


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[JMN]

Oh no melted margin. Slightly lifted margin interproximally

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Do you cut a groove in the investment at the solder point to direct the flame? Do you preheat the bridge enough in the burnout oven first? After burying the margins, and getting the lowest flame for the shortest time, I'd found those to be the issues.

 

[wk2012wk]

Do you cut a groove in the investment at the solder point to direct the flame? Do you preheat the bridge enough in the burnout oven first? After burying the margins, and getting the lowest flame for the shortest time, I'd found those to be the issues.

Yes I do make channel under cut bridge. Bench set 20min and PREHEATING 1700F for 20min. BUT LOWEST flame for shortest time? Which one is more important factor? Flame temperature or soldering time? I'm not sure.

I think minimum amount of solder works best tho. I mean the solder strip/wire amount wise.

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[JMN]

Yes I do make channel under cut bridge. Bench set 20min and PREHEATING 1700F for 20min. BUT LOWEST flame for shortest time? Which one is more important factor? Flame temperature or soldering time? I'm not sure.

I think minimum amount of solder works best tho. I mean the solder strip/wire amount wise.

All I'm trying, badly, to say is don't overheat. Think of it as casting. Yellow high Gold content takes much less temp/time than Palladium based or NP. With solder, just use as much as you need and stop. It'll take all you out on/in. If you need to, practice on throwaway stuff that someone already shyed up or something. Another option would be to post-solder in the porc furnace, which is tricky itself because you can't see or intervene if you didn't put enough solder.

Edit: If you practice on stuff, *Do Not* put the soldered areas back into the button/ingot. Thought you'd know, but wanted to be absolutely certain, it will cause all sorts of nasty problems if you do.

 

[wk2012wk]

Thank you

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