PFM Pricing Strategies

[jthacke3]

We've had flat rate pricing for our pfms for nearly two decades but with the emergence of monolithic materials as a preferred restoration, especially for single units, nearly 70% of the pfms we fabricate are either bridges or implants. As a result, we're looking to overhaul our pfm pricing to more properly reflect our cost structure, while doing our best to keep the pricing relatively simple and predictable for our customers.

One thing we are considering is to keep our crowns at a flat rate and do a base price plus alloy for bridges and implant crowns, those with metal linguals and occlusals, etc. I'm curious as to what others have done.

Thanks in advance.
Jim

 

[BobCDT]

We do flat fee plus alloy. As the complexity of the case increases the fee goes up. We have a fee for sinle PFM's then 3-6 and 6 plus. Implants are more.

 

[charles007]

Jim, I'm in the same boat with you on flat rate pricing. Years ago some of my accounts complained about being nickeled and dimed to death in my pricing, so I guess I was suckered into flat rate and never went back to weighing alloys lol This has been a mistake using Noble pfm alloys since I didn't keep up with the increased cost as it fluctuated up and down over the many years. For now I'm going to keep my flat rate crowns and start changing my flat rate price WHEN my alloy cost changes.. A $25.00 increase in alloy cost is the starting point of increasing my flat rate pricing up by $1.00 ( I can easily cast 25 units out of one ounce of alloy) At todays alloy cost equals exactly $1.00 increase per $25.00 increase of alloy. I think doctors will accept slight changing pricing easier every xx months as compared to every crown having different prices.

 

[2thm8kr]

Wow 007,
You're wearing me out. Just adjust your alloy fees per order.

 

[charles007]

Your right, I got bored re-reading my post... going to delete
Thinking about low lab prices makes me angry

 

[adamb4321]

I used to do an inclusive price for precious pfm's and fgc's but with the high cost of alloy have changed over to charging for the alloy per gram separately.

It can be surprising how much a unit can weigh, especially implant crowns.

The Drs would probably rather a flat fee but I haven't had any problems charging by the gram so far.

I think it's easy to underestimate the real cost of the alloy when it's all inclusive, do you factor in a mark up for the alloy when inclusive? Is the $25 alloy price increase trigger including tax/carriage etc from the supplier plus your mark up?

 

[jthacke3]

We use Argen Digital for most of our pfm copings so we can determine the cost of the alloy very accurately. We still feel like we can flat rate crowns, adjusting prices by $5 for every $100 change in gold. Bridges vary so wildly that it doesn't really makes sense to flat rate anymore. Fortunately, only 12% of our restorations have alloy in them. However over half are bridge units with another 20% over implants. The unique nature of each case means we can no longer determine an "average" weight. Times have changed.

 

[Al.]

I do a flat fee that includes 1 dwt of N. I charge for the overage. Not HN, I bill fee + alloy if they want HN.

 

[Toothman19]

We have a PFM fee and depending on if its a molar we charge a certain alloy weight and if its any other tooth we charge a flat alloy rate for that. We weigh all of our implant and gold crowns. Also if a PFM is a metal occlusal we have a small fee for that, plus we always weigh that crown as well

 

[Bobby Orr ceramics]

We don't believe in flat prices for anything with gold unless it's priced like the 8 gm gold crown we just sent out for $605.

 

[lcmlabforum]

We have a PFM fee and depending on if its a molar we charge a certain alloy weight and if its any other tooth we charge a flat alloy rate for that. We weigh all of our implant and gold crowns. Also if a PFM is a metal occlusal we have a small fee for that, plus we always weigh that crown as well

My lab guy would subtract the weight of the cast to abutment as well for implant crown -
because already included in cost when abutment ordered and will not double charge me.
Not sure how to compensate for plastic portion . . .
Just my 2 cents.
LCM

 

[rkm rdt]

We don't believe in flat prices for anything with gold unless it's priced like the 8 gm gold crown we just sent out for $605.

I've come close but haven't broke the $600 barrier yet.

 

[Tayebdental]

I usually warn my clients about the cost for gold when they prescribe full cast crowns. Some of these crowns you need a lift to carry!! the patient has to sleep with his or her head in a safe, just to be on the safe side.

 

[Rosko]

I use Tilite from Talladium ,have had no problems. A great bond and they have a certified insurance on the alloy against any reaction

 

[JohnWilson]

We use Argen Digital for most of our pfm copings so we can determine the cost of the alloy very accurately. We still feel like we can flat rate crowns, adjusting prices by $5 for every $100 change in gold. Bridges vary so wildly that it doesn't really makes sense to flat rate anymore. Fortunately, only 12% of our restorations have alloy in them. However over half are bridge units with another 20% over implants. The unique nature of each case means we can no longer determine an "average" weight. Times have changed.

I find it very interesting that a lab your size with at even only 12% metal ceramics you choose to outsource your frames. Can you elaborate on your decision to go to Argen? Are you stacking or over pressing? I am always looking to learn from businessmen I respect and this issue to outsource this aspect of the restoration puzzles me. While I totally get the digital aspect its the bottom line that makes me scratch my head. You must be getting an amazing deal for the coping.

Please take a minute to describe how you morphed from analog to digital-outsourcing and the effect on the profitability of this restoration based on this decision.

 

[jthacke3]

I find it very interesting that a lab your size with at even only 12% metal ceramics you choose to outsource your frames. Can you elaborate on your decision to go to Argen? Are you stacking or over pressing? I am always looking to learn from businessmen I respect and this issue to outsource this aspect of the restoration puzzles me. While I totally get the digital aspect its the bottom line that makes me scratch my head. You must be getting an amazing deal for the coping.

Please take a minute to describe how you morphed from analog to digital-outsourcing and the effect on the profitability of this restoration based on this decision.

Its a number of factors that led us to outsourcing most of our PFM & Full Cast copings. We still keep about 25% of them in house but we send out as much we possibly can. That being said, here are our reasons:

• For us, it is simply less expensive to produce PFM copings through Argen Digital than in-house
• We have the scanning technology and capacity
• We were able to dramatically reduce our alloy inventory, reducing risk of loss. It also reduces inefficiency, waste, and exposure to market risk.
  
• There is a scarcity of good technicians in our area and using our scanner to outsource allows us to allocate our employees for more valuable tasks. With the contraction of our industry, skilled techs command a premium wage and they are difficult to find.
• With only 12% of our restorations containing alloy, we only do a few restorations each day--not enough for a full-time job. We get a more consistent product through outsourcing as opposed to a part time metal tech.
• It really makes sense for the full cast crowns--after the model work is done, we simply scan and send. Upon return, we polish and ship. No need to wax or cast.

When you look at the cost of an employee to wax and cast the copings, the supplies to do the job, the maintenance of equipment, and the cost to inventory and track alloy usage, it costs labs more to create copings in house than most people think. To answer your question about stack vs press, our lab presses almost everything, including PFMs. Pressing creates a measure of consistency in our final product with less variation between ceramists. Its the best business model considering the skill set of our personnel.

All these reasons contribute to the decision to outsource work for our lab. Those reasons won't apply to all labs and circumstances. Its simply a matter of proper resource allocation.

 

[lcmlabforum]

This pretty much sums up the current state of labs in the US (not considering
those who have shifted to Zirconia completely?)? Covered everything from
cost of skilled labor, change in demand, and the turn-around of using
US (I assume) based digital solutions to help the business keep
going and stay efficient.
LCM