Peek

[Drizzt]

I am following Bredent's protocol . Using their primers and bonding agents . They work great . What I have posted is finished with Bredent's novolign system , no layering . It works great IMO .

 

[Drizzt]

question, why no pressing on abutment? 400 degrees would affect much to Ti ?.what cement you used cement

I would avoid pressing directly to Ti . It is a temperature sensitive material , and although they say it is ok , I would sleep better at night if I didn't press directly on Ti .

 

[Juvora dental]

Hi - for those interested in some more info regrading working with the high performance polymers please take a look at https://www.youtube.com/user/JUVORADental

The JUVORA CADCAM disc uses the original biomaterial PEEK (the one with the 5 million device history). It's cleared in the USA for RPDs and imlant overdentures. It's also cleared in the EU for screw retained and fixed implant prosthetics, plus fixed crown and bridges.

 

[AGV]

Hi - for those interested in some more info regrading working with the high performance polymers please take a look at https://www.youtube.com/user/JUVORADental

The JUVORA CADCAM disc uses the original biomaterial PEEK (the one with the 5 million device history). It's cleared in the USA for RPDs and imlant overdentures. It's also cleared in the EU for screw retained and fixed implant prosthetics, plus fixed crown and bridges.

We need data about bond strenght peek-metal, peek-LiSi, peek-coomposite.
Bredent claims that they have improved the bondage with his peek.
Is JUVORA's peek able to overcome the bond of BREDENT's peek ?. In terms of longevity in patient's mouth?
Information, please.

 

[Affinity]

The Drs Ive mentioned it to shrug it off as too weak.. Not sure too many are willing to take the risk here in the US yet...

 

[Juvora dental]

If you are interested in keeping an eye on how the use of high performance polymers plays out in Europe and o/s the USA then you may want to check out the prosthetics at this 500 member group at https://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/656316924488939/
there is lots of discussion on techniques, bonding, case examples etc

The bonding is good IF the correct preparation and systems are used.
As for strength - granted... ultimate strength isnt going to match metal of course..but in 5 year aging tests the chewing simulation, the original PEEK (JUVORA) was equivalent to zirconia bridges - With a bite force of 1300N (equivalent to a Rottweiler or Puma). This original material has been used in 5 million load bearing spine cages and so PEEK has a lot of history of use in being a metal replacement that attempts to be a more natural like material than simply going for something that is indestructible. The fatigue properties are also excellent for dealing with cyclic loading. In the EU the Juvora PEEK material is being used as a shock absorbing substructure. With 26x more shock absorption than titanium - especially great for bruxers.
As it is a specialist polymer designed for industrial moulding machines or milling, we would recommend using CADCAM to avoid any risk of adverse changes to the material properties.

 

[Drizzt]

Strength is not the only thing we should be concerned IMO . As Juvora Dental said , we need to stick to the rules . Not like we did with zirconia . I am seeing Prettau bridges with 7 pontics , all on 6 . I believe that it is a disaster waiting to happen , not because the material is bad , but because we didn't stick to the rules .

I would choose any day a PEEK screw retained superstructure compared to a Prettau bridge . Better material for bruxers compared to zirconia . Even compared to Titanium , because it is a lot easier to mill .

Overall , I think that companies like Juvora , Bredent , C&M must educate dentists . We techs are willing to try new things . It is the dentist that must be convinced and make the Rx .

 

[PCDL]

I just grabbed a few discs of the Pekkton material at the IDS to bring back and try. I was very impressed with the versatility and the esthetics of the restorations. I agree with above... As long as the rules are followed and the dentist is educated, it could be a great new branch of materials.

 

[grantoz]

The way I look at it, the peek isn't the problem its the resins bonded to them which compared to any other aesthetic material ie porcelain mono emax or zirc is very weak. the peek disc if milling are more expensive than zirconia so the peek resto is going to be expensive so if the resin bonded to it fails the dentist who has paid a lot for a plastic restoration in his eyes is going to have the 5hits.I think if we try and talk the dentist into it we will cop it big time people bang on about this and that is going to fail in the future but I would be far more worried about peek than just about anything. They quote these long term studies using peek for other body parts but they aren't boding weaker resins to the body parts for spinal repairs etc are they .ok even if you make individual emax or zirc crowns and then pond them to a peek framework it will flex and pop the luting agents between the frame and the crowns again not ideal as this restoration would be very expensive they look great but both the patient and the dentist have very high expectations as we all know. Saying all this im still milling some small frames as we speak.I also think the whole shock absortion thing has been overstated what was the first thing they tell us about implant frame works? they must be passive yet rigid or the bone will resorb has this changed. titanium has done this very well over the many years it has been used. Time will tell!!!!

 

[kimba]

The way I look at it, the peek isn't the problem its the resins bonded to them which compared to any other aesthetic material ie porcelain mono emax or zirc is very weak. the peek disc if milling are more expensive than zirconia so the peek resto is going to be expensive so if the resin bonded to it fails the dentist who has paid a lot for a plastic restoration in his eyes is going to have the 5hits.I think if we try and talk the dentist into it we will cop it big time people bang on about this and that is going to fail in the future but I would be far more worried about peek than just about anything. They quote these long term studies using peek for other body parts but they aren't boding weaker resins to the body parts for spinal repairs etc are they .ok even if you make individual emax or zirc crowns and then pond them to a peek framework it will flex and pop the luting agents between the frame and the crowns again not ideal as this restoration would be very expensive they look great but both the patient and the dentist have very high expectations as we all know. Saying all this im still milling some small frames as we speak.I also think the whole shock absortion thing has been overstated what was the first thing they tell us about implant frame works? they must be passive yet rigid or the bone will resorb has this changed. titanium has done this very well over the many years it has been used. Time will tell!!!!

wise words as always grantoz. we collectively often seem to be doing the clinical trials for lots of dental companies "next big thing".
Having said that the cases displayed here look great!

 

[Drizzt]

My next all on six will be a polymer frame , individual Cube X2 or Whitepeaks Copra zirconia , and composite gum , BDT technique by my mates Phil Reddington and Lee Mullins , Leeds , UK .

 

[grantoz]

Drizzt are you doing it or are your mates doing it for you? also what do you think the fee will be? this is very healthy thread to run. As Kimba pointed out, he has been through the whole beta testing of products before the only problem is the company doesn't tell us that we are beta testing which at times is very bad. look at art glass targis vectris bell glass and so on.Kimba knows what he is talking about as an older progressive techo he has seen this many times .I like the way this website thread has approached this new material with excitement and caution.

 

[Drizzt]

Drizzt are you doing it or are your mates doing it for you? also what do you think the fee will be? this is very healthy thread to run. As Kimba pointed out, he has been through the whole beta testing of products before the only problem is the company doesn't tell us that we are beta testing which at times is very bad. look at art glass targis vectris bell glass and so on.Kimba knows what he is talking about as an older progressive techo he has seen this many times .I like the way this website thread has approached this new material with excitement and caution.

I have already done one , 2 years ago and it works perfectly . It was made with zirconia copings and Juvora PEEK .

My mates are doing it for over 5 years , and I trust them completely when they say it works . Actually they were the first to do that kind of work with those materials in the world , so they have mastered everything on it , plus they work closely with Centre Metaux and they have done R&D for them for the PEKKTON material . So I completely trust them .

Cost is not low , but it is not that greater than a conventional PFM all on 6 .

I will give you an example . Before christmas , I made a FMR , all on 6 on both arches , milled CoCr frames , and layered with ceramics . Now , because adjusting occlusion to a patient that had no teeth , that no provisionals were made prior the final treatment is one of the hardest things to do in dentistry , and the patient didn't wear the protection splint , it chipped in one tooth . We fixed it intraoraly , because we were lucky and it could be fixed . But if we weren't lucky , it would be a pain in the a$$ . If the BDT bridge was made , just destroy one crown , fix another and you are good to go . So much better IMO .

 

[AGV]

My next all on six will be a polymer frame , individual Cube X2 or Whitepeaks Copra zirconia , and composite gum , BDT technique by my mates Phil Reddington and Lee Mullins , Leeds , UK .

Drizzt,

Do you think that Zr will be better than e-max in terms of bond strenght ?

 

[Drizzt]

Drizzt,

Do you think that Zr will be better than e-max in terms of bond strenght ?

As far as I know , it is ok . I used the DTK cement and primers by Bredent , following theirs and Juvora's protocol , so I think I will have zero problems . After two years I don't have any issues . I don't know if etching will make any difference , I mean this material is not dentine so ... Phil and Lee are doing theirs with e.max .

 

[cadfan]

Victrex is the mother invibio for trauma and juvora for dental

Vestakeep by evonic degussa by a few distributors

 

[DevonR]

i found this video to be very informative... it's the Pekkton presentation at IDS 2015

 

[Drizzt]

Yup , that's my boy !!

One amazing tech guys !! And an even more amazing person !

 

[TheLabGuy]

That's the class Al, Bob, and myself went too a couple months back...it's a sweet system. This stuff will make everyone here in the states go to it for hybrids. Especially if you incorporate the BDT technique into as you're doing it. As for cost, the BDT technique makes it a ton faster and cheaper than doing the other methods...plus you get to sleep at night not worrying as Drizzt was stating.

 

[Drizzt]

Totally agree with Rob . I will try to educate them all , and covert as much as I can to this technique . It is not cheap , but it is not more expensive than PFM milled frame and layered porcelain . As for those you will propose to me to make a Prettau style bridge , I refuse to do this . Have zero faith in this . Maybe I am wrong , but I would never put something like this into my own mouth .