I've never made a denture before but with digital I'm an expert...

[JMN]

Yes, that old coot had a way of doing that. You may be surprised but I actually agree with Flipper here fellas. Maybe not so much about the digital aspect, other than digital dentures being mainstream is going to take awhile. However, I do agree with her that single crown vs. denture, by far Dentures have a shlt ton more going on technically. As a tech who does both every day, Dentures always are much more complex, require a ton more communication, and selecting/setting a full arch ain't for the faint of the heart most days. Then by chance you get a reset, well fk me upside down, all that time you just spent making that denture look great was like plssing upwind...has to be completely redone for the most part. So in that regard I agree with her, I'm curious if others (that do both fixed/removable) agree with that aspect.

Yep. Most especially if you are doing c/c or c/full natural. One crown, particularly in the posterior, you can read the teeth and copy the surrounding dentition without any functional knowledge aside from let the opposing give your anatomy max height. Not that you'd want to or that it's done regularly.

 

[JMN]

We need a "Digital denture of the week" section on this site. I would like to see what is possible, what amount of time it takes to learn the system, produce a digital denture and the discussions about the technical issues.

Sure. Here:

Digital Denture of the Week

As suggested by @Craig T . Please let us know what system(s) you used and your opinions on the process.

dentallabnetwork.com

Now, to get people to put stuff there.

 

[Contraluz]

omg, I can like do both,totally for sure.

I agree! One doesn't exclude the other.

Over the past 30 years I have done many, many dentures, although I do mainly fixed. I actually like it and do it when ever I can. When learning the trade, back in Switzerland, big part of the curriculum was dentures and we actually had to deliver a full upper and lower denture for the certification. We learned what is known in the US as the 'Candulor system'. We know it as the 'Gerber system', named after Prof. Gerber, from the University of Zürich (he is long gone by now).

Don't forget, the same principles that apply to dentures apply to fixed full arch rehabilitations!!!

 

[rkm rdt]

I agree! One doesn't exclude the other.

Over the past 30 years I have done many, many dentures, although I do mainly fixed. I actually like it and do it when ever I can. When learning the trade, back in Switzerland, big part of the curriculum was dentures and we actually had to deliver a full upper and lower denture for the certification. We learned what is known in the US as the 'Candulor system'. We know it as the 'Gerber system', named after Prof. Gerber, from the University of Zürich (he is long gone by now).

Don't forget, the same principles that apply to dentures apply to fixed full arch rehabilitations!!!

I had to learn all aspects including ortho to obtain my license. I will only make partials from an IOS now.

 

[Contraluz]

I had to learn all aspects including ortho to obtain my license. I will only make partials from an IOS now.

Same here. Ortho, partial framework (Co Cr),Full denture, gold bridge, veneered with acrylic (I am old...),and at the very end, ceramics... Everything was tested at the time of the finals.

 

[rkm rdt]

Same here. Ortho, partial framework (Co Cr),Full denture, gold bridge, veneered with acrylic (I am old...),and at the very end, ceramics... Everything was tested at the time of the finals.

week long exam,written,oral , and practical. Had to bring my own equipment and materials.
Took the passenger seat out of my jeep to carry everything to Toronto.

 

[Contraluz]

week long exam,written,oral , and practical. Had to bring my own equipment and materials.
Took the passenger seat out of my jeep to carry everything to Toronto.

, memories! Yeah, one week and we had to haul pretty much everything, too. Although, the test was at an educational center with the bigger equipments and, I think, porcelain furnaces, too.

Edit: Didn't mean to add the emoji...

 

[rkm rdt]

Travis needs to set up an emoji amnesty program.

 

[Doris A]

Same here. Ortho, partial framework (Co Cr),Full denture, gold bridge, veneered with acrylic (I am old...),and at the very end, ceramics... Everything was tested at the time of the finals.

You're not old....

 

[Craig T]

Don't forget, the same principles that apply to dentures apply to fixed full arch rehabilitations!!!

Please correct me if my thinking is wrong. It will be informative for myself and others.
Assuming over or under existing dentition:
Fixed full arch = mutually protective occlusion
Denture = bilaterally balanced occlusion

Assuming over or under tissue supported:
Fixed full arch = bilaterally balanced occlusion
Denture = bilaterally balanced occlusion

 

[FASTFNGR]

Spent a few hours calling around about digital dentures this week. Most telling conversation was a large company's dental rep: who had a story of a traveling dentist going door to door selling 85.00 digital dentures. Big reason he was a traveling dentist, the digital dentures fall apart 6-12 months into use. The technology is a long way off.

I have been looking into digital denture since last Feb in Chicago. And since then I have learned a lot. Here is some data from companies that produce digital equipment and resins. All denture resins approved by the FDA, are approved for a period of time from 6months to 3 years max. No one is telling you that, but that is why all of them say it is a temp denture. The second issue with digital denture is, if you are making an upper and a lower, there is no way digitally to get a bite or a VDO or VDR. I am still on my opinion from a while ago, digital dentures now is just a big hype for companies to sell 3D printers. I will follow later with more info.

 

[kcdt]

I have been looking into digital denture since last Feb in Chicago. And since then I have learned a lot. Here is some data from companies that produce digital equipment and resins. All denture resins approved by the FDA, are approved for a period of time from 6months to 3 years max. No one is telling you that, but that is why all of them say it is a temp denture. The second issue with digital denture is, if you are making an upper and a lower, there is no way digitally to get a bite or a VDO or VDR. I am still on my opinion from a while ago, digital dentures now is just a big hype for companies to sell 3D printers. I will follow later with more info.

This is the steep part of ROI curve. Companies need to recoup massive investment on something not ready for prime time. So they blow a lot of smoke up your ass and hope...

 

[Flipperlady]

Yes, that old coot had a way of doing that. You may be surprised but I actually agree with Flipper here fellas. Maybe not so much about the digital aspect, other than digital dentures being mainstream is going to take awhile. However, I do agree with her that single crown vs. denture, by far Dentures have a shlt ton more going on technically. As a tech who does both every day, Dentures always are much more complex, require a ton more communication, and selecting/setting a full arch ain't for the faint of the heart either. Then by chance you get a reset, well fk me upside down, all that time you just spent making that denture look great was like plssing upwind...has to be completely redone for the most part. So in that regard I agree with her, I'm curious if others (that do both fixed/removable) agree with that aspect.

How about the docs who try to set the teeth themselves to save money and ask you to "pretty it up"? You basically have to remove all the posteriors and reset them while grinding down an inch of quick cure baseplate and re-waxing the whole thing to make look pretty. Seems like the models on these are poured with and attached to the articulator with the super duper die stone that only dynomite can remove...

 

[JMN]

How about the docs who try to set the teeth themselves to save money and ask you to "pretty it up"? You basically have to remove all the posteriors and reset them while grinding down an inch of quick cure baseplate and re-waxing the whole thing to make look pretty. Seems like the models on these are poured with and attached to the articulator with the super duper die stone that only dynomite can remove...

You can have some real Good Times with Dynomite!

 

[Doris A]

How about the docs who try to set the teeth themselves to save money and ask you to "pretty it up"? You basically have to remove all the posteriors and reset them while grinding down an inch of quick cure baseplate and re-waxing the whole thing to make look pretty. Seems like the models on these are poured with and attached to the articulator with the super duper die stone that only dynomite can remove...

Those docs get charged for a full set up.

 

[kcdt]

How about the docs who try to set the teeth themselves to save money and ask you to "pretty it up"? You basically have to remove all the posteriors and reset them while grinding down an inch of quick cure baseplate and re-waxing the whole thing to make look pretty. Seems like the models on these are poured with and attached to the articulator with the super duper die stone that only dynomite can remove...

Sounds like the local SOD. It goes without saying 50%ish Prostho as well.

 

[kcdt]

Those docs get charged for a full set up.

Yep, or they get back what they said to process.

 

[Contraluz]

Please correct me if my thinking is wrong. It will be informative for myself and others.
Assuming over or under existing dentition:
Fixed full arch = mutually protective occlusion
Denture = bilaterally balanced occlusion

Assuming over or under tissue supported:
Fixed full arch = bilaterally balanced occlusion
Denture = bilaterally balanced occlusion

I realize my statement was a bit too broad... And I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by 'over or under' . There might be a lack of terminology knowledge (language barrier),on my end...

But in general on fixed, non tissue support, you are correct with mutual protected occlusion and in most case, canine guidance is the goal.

You are also correct with soft tissue born prosthesis, in most case you want a bilateral balanced occlusion.

 

[kcdt]

I realize my statement was a bit too broad... And I am not sure I fully understand what you mean by 'over or under' . There might be a lack of terminology knowledge (language barrier),on my end...

But in general on fixed, non tissue support, you are correct with mutual protected occlusion and in most case, canine guidance is the goal.

You are also correct with soft tissue born prosthesis, in most case you want a bilateral balanced occlusion.

Devil's advocate:
What about opposing AO4?

 

[Sda36]

week long exam,written,oral , and practical. Had to bring my own equipment and materials.
Took the passenger seat out of my jeep to carry everything to Toronto.

Not to mention the wonderful AC during that whole week in the summer...None!!! You could watch your setup flow