how get correct translucently with creation?

[grabo]

I have been using creation for many years now but i battle with getting the correct translucent with the incisals ,i have tried mixing the SI incisals with S59, ive tried stacking incisal and enamel porcelain side by side , every conceivable way ive tried but i cant seem to get a consistent lively colour when i view in the mouth ,they tend to look like crown !
Then on the other hand my emax look really nice and lifelike in the mouth.

Any Creation guru out there that can give me some advice on what i can try ?

 

[stanleyn]

I love TI-3, S57,OT incisals. They are not gray, but it will low the value with out graying the crown. The key is to control the translucency with Creation is the dentin. I think it is too dense in my opinion,transitional dentin is not mach better. Some people put HT on top of the dentin, I do it sometimes for the front teeth. Most of the time I mix my dentin with HT. For A2 I would use: HT54/California White,for D3:1part of HT53,HT54,4 parts S59. What I found the natural teeth have a lot of opalescence,TI3/OT is my main incisal. Try play with contrasts. I mean translucent next to less translucent. I love to sandwich TI2/PS-0 50/50 in between CL-O and incisal.I put CL-O on top of my dentin,than TI-2/PS-0,than incisal,than A2/A57 for hallow affect. I think what make Creation is very beautiful the perleyness of its incisal. I start to work with E-Max and I hate their incisals. The only opal incisal that I can see is OE1,but it is too blue and does not look natural in the mouth.It makes the crown too gray. P.S. English is not my first language so if it does not make sense it is my best.

 

[Car 54]

P.S. English is not my first language so if it does not make sense it is my best.

No worries on your post, stanleyn, very understandable, with some good insight for me to try, too. Thanks.

 

[GAP]

I have been using creation for many years now but i battle with getting the correct translucent with the incisals

I bought a bunch of creation on ebay, I scored two lots and averaged paying like $10/bottle. Like you, I battled with it. It came out nice when I took the extra time to add a layer of CL-O over the dentin and then feather in enamels and TI's ever so gingerly. Blot slightly as I built but still kept it moist. For production I mixed CL-O with the Dentin so I could build faster (and admittedly sloppier) without getting a demarcation line. think that worked? never really found a build strategy that I liked or could keep consistent.

So, I did an exchange program for a new brand. my PFM's are produced faster, and no battling. I might have stuck with it longer but I was running low on A2 I had a lot of A4, C4, B4's, that would've taken me 10yrs to use up--LOL.

I'm no guru, below is a fair example of how my creation pfms looked -- you can see the iridescence of it.



Compared to a brand with a translucent dentin -- no mixing enamels, or trying to 'water down' the dentins. I put the effects where I want like I do with emax ceram and no demarcation. MUCH EASIER for a new ceramist to learn on. And I think i could've got a similar look if I pressed in emax or layered zir

 

[Car 54]

I bought a bunch of creation on ebay, I scored two lots and averaged paying like $10/bottle. Like you, I battled with it.

So, I did an exchange program for a new brand. my PFM's are produced faster, and no battling. I might have stuck with it longer but I was running low on A2 I had a lot of A4, C4, B4's, that would've taken me 10yrs to use up--LOL.

Nice looking work, GAP Are you saying you traded your Creation in on a new porc., if so, what did you go with?

 

[GAP]

Nice looking work, GAP Are you saying you traded your Creation in on a new porc., if so, what did you go with?

Thanks. I still have some Creation, I kept a few bottles of the lighter dentin shades and some of the modifiers.

I went with Ceramco iC.

Its low fusing so kinder to opposing dentition, less wear and tear on my ovens, and has press-to ingots that can be layered with the reg powders. I only need one opaque layer fire. Larger br's, crowns under partials, multi single units I can wax and press. Great for anterior Br work cuz wax for me is a lot easier to form. Per gram its less expensive than GC initial's line. Comes in the 3D shades. Downside is the press-to ingots have a narrow cte range for alloys (TiLite works well) and maybe more shrinkage than creation too?

 

[chickenlicken]

Controlling your dentine buildup,is crucial to creation. Cut back more than most other porcelains. I the. Snowcap lighter shades with TI2 , darker with TI3 before layering SI, and enamels. I used to overlay everything on a second bake using HT at the neck, and CLO in Incisal and Mid sections, so long as your second bake is not too thick, you won't grey out your insicals. Have a look at the Jensen website for some decent articles using creation. I have recently tried out the GC initial porcelain which is Creation MK2 (GC own Klema, and Creation),and record its easier to use with a better final result.

 

[William]

if you do a build up similar to what is in their instruction manual it is relatively easy. there are so many layering strategies that work it is mind boggling. the dentins have a near perfect opacity. it and noritaki are the only ceramics i have seen that can mimic nature. at the end of the day it is colored glass. without a shade photo we are guessing, no matter what veneering ceramic we use. with a shade photo we can make educated and experience learned deductions.