How do You test accurate fit of crowns ?

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RileyS

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Im not an expert like 2th, but Id say look at the preps youre scanning. If things are 90% good but just the occasional few that need a tweek, Id guess(?) that its a similar situation on most of them. Maybe its not the spacer but drill comp that needs a bit more. If you can identify a trouble prep, Id rather do some doctoring on it before I scan rather than having to adjust crowns. I know exo lets us adjust mesh, but I haven't dived into that yet.

Im really curious how a case Ive got coming up is going to go. Newish Doctor. Took a failed crown off a super skinny abutment and took an impression. The prep looks as skinny as my bur. Ugh
Just checked a crown sitting tight. Looked at design and played with drill comp to see difference from normal setting and slightly increase compensation. I can pick out the losers and increase that setting and I think I'll be good. Thanks!
 
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Different strokes I guess. I fit every case under 10x scope. Running every case through as if its the 'same' because your settings are the 'same' isnt very scientific to me. Every puck has different shrinkage, every ring of investment can be different depending on the weather, why would anyone assume it fits because your settings are 'dialed in'. I would wager that those of you that dont examine the inside of the crowns are leaving sintered dust in the corners occasionally. I bet a lot of you dont refine the margins either because your 'machining' is so good.. :rolleyes:
 
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Im not completely convinced of the accuracy some companies have on the expansion of their pucks. I had a run of slightly tight stuff that just showed up from a new puck.

Speaking of residual dust..

Whats everyone using for a brush when youre cleaning out fresh milled stuff? I like some hog hair cheap ones from the hobby store, but Id like even a bit stiffer.
 
millennium

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I cut up AccuFilm 1 single sided tape into strips and use the marking side towards the inside of the crown of course. Very precise, I think the tape is 8 um thick and is not rigid at all and works really well for this.
 
sidesh0wb0b

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I just ask what products / methods you use when you need it
Hoping to learn something.
It is nice to see that you pay so much attention to the that you do not have to accurate fit the crown
how about a thin coat of Renfert Iso Stick lube on the die. let that be the "mark" on the inside of your crown to adjust....if need be. no mess.
 
Marcusthegladiator CDT

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When I hear the jangle of marker spray being shaken up, I quiver. Thats the sound of a LAST RESORT.
Am I the only one who looks inside with a microscope anymore?
 
Jack_the_dentureman

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When I hear the jangle of marker spray being shaken up, I quiver. Thats the sound of a LAST RESORT.
Am I the only one who looks inside with a microscope anymore?
I also use a microscope to check. When something is on i use contact color for testing.
So I see where to look at the microscope and correct it.

I find that if you do not use the magnification, and there are a lot of technicians who are even resentful that they do not have to, then you can not see it, you do not even know what inaccuracy you are talking about.

It may be worthwhile to carry out some quality checks.
 
sndmn2

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I use feel and sight. Optivsors . If it feels and looks tight, it is . If it looks loose and feels that way , it is. If there is a real noticeable hang up in a casting that I cant see I will sand blast , moisten the die , dare I say ( look for the wet spot) , repeat as needed. I never cared much for sprays. Accufilm for contact areas.
 
Car 54

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Im not completely convinced of the accuracy some companies have on the expansion of their pucks. I had a run of slightly tight stuff that just showed up from a new puck.

Speaking of residual dust..

Whats everyone using for a brush when youre cleaning out fresh milled stuff? I like some hog hair cheap ones from the hobby store, but Id like even a bit stiffer.

I've wondered the same thing about puck accuracy.

Probably not the cheapest, but a Renfert Basic 1717/0004. It has enough backbone to the bristles to be able to get into the corners without flexing to much.
They come in 2 packs, so it's not that bad money wise. It's lasting a lot longer than my #4 Genius brushes that I had thrown in a drawer when the tips became to blunt to use with my ceramic powders.
 
RileyS

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When I hear the jangle of marker spray being shaken up, I quiver. Thats the sound of a LAST RESORT.
Am I the only one who looks inside with a microscope anymore?
So...what are you looking for? Talking zirconia, cause I dont do metal, If I feel the die slightly sticking, I can't find the spot under the microscope. If I do spray check, that one tiny spot on the side wall of intaglio shows up, I can lightly touch that spot with a bur and I'm good to go. If I just have the feeling it's in that general area and grind away then it's the same as using a hammer to hit a thumb tack into the wall right...?
 
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You can always look for the crumble of die stone where your margin just chipped off from a high point or uneven margin after seating the crown.Dontknow Really I dont see why its such a big deal to spritz a crown and see how it touches the die.. seems lazy maybe? I bet you would be surprised at what you see.
 
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It seems that the difference between the "highly precise fit' and "put the crown on die until it touches margin" (not fit at all) to have been lost
 
CoolHandLuke

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It seems that the difference between the "highly precise fit' and "put the crown on die until it touches margin" (not fit at all) to have been lost
highly precise fit is useless.

most dentists dont use highly precise amount of cement.

so the absolute best thing you can do to save yourself from remakes and save the patient from poor clinicians is to create super loose fit. huge drill compensation, huge spacer, crown only touching die at the margin.

that way they can glob on cement like usual, and fit will be better, crown will last longer.
 
sndmn2

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... and be sure to use tar paper for adj. the occ.
 
Affinity

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To the OPs original question: how do you test accurate fit? It seems no one has an answer other than to see if the margins are closed, which doesnt fulfill the requirement of testing 'fit' only marginal integrity. Unless someone has x ray eyes, or completely trusts a machine, theres no way to see how the intaglio of the crown touches the die, unless you have an indicator. Margins are crazy and sharp and uneven and scanners and mills cant always capture that. At least thats my experience, but everyone has different standards and practices.

I use generic foot powder spray at $8/can and touch any high spots with a two striper. It takes less than 30 seconds. Maybe thats too much time to spend on a crown for some. You can also have your Dr send you the radiograph when its cemented, the newer digital tech is brutally honest.
 
sidesh0wb0b

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To the OPs original question: how do you test accurate fit? It seems no one has an answer other than to see if the margins are closed, which doesnt fulfill the requirement of testing 'fit' only marginal integrity. Unless someone has x ray eyes, or completely trusts a machine, theres no way to see how the intaglio of the crown touches the die, unless you have an indicator. Margins are crazy and sharp and uneven and scanners and mills cant always capture that. At least thats my experience, but everyone has different standards and practices.

I use generic foot powder spray at $8/can and touch any high spots with a two striper. It takes less than 30 seconds. Maybe thats too much time to spend on a crown for some. You can also have your Dr send you the radiograph when its cemented, the newer digital tech is brutally honest.
the problem is, no one talks clinical significance.
of course the intaglio surface isnt going to be exact, nor should it be for proper fit. and since every prep design is significantly different from the previous, each "fit" should be treated individually....and more importantly with the cements on the market nowadays, what type of 'improper' fit will be clinically significant?
as in: lets say a margin is slightly open, but the cementation process is completed properly and the gap is filled and set as it should be....lets also say margin integrity is as accurate as we can get on a subsequent crown, and cementation is done properly. both cases most likely will have no clinical significance for that precise or slightly open margin. why? because generally, the cements used block only so much of bacteria. whether the margin is sealed with the crown or cement, the micron thickness of bacteria either can or cannot penetrate the seal. this goes for conventional crowns, digital, composite, etc.
 
Marcusthegladiator CDT

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So...what are you looking for? Talking zirconia, cause I dont do metal, If I feel the die slightly sticking, I can't find the spot under the microscope. If I do spray check, that one tiny spot on the side wall of intaglio shows up, I can lightly touch that spot with a bur and I'm good to go. If I just have the feeling it's in that general area and grind away then it's the same as using a hammer to hit a thumb tack into the wall right...?
The intaglio of a crown, veneer, inlay, and onlay will always be hung up in the same areas. We all know where to look and make adjustments. The spray always stains the die permanently as if to say to the doc, "Yep, we had trouble fitting this, you may too." So I wouldn't use the spray unless I absolutely had to.
 
RileyS

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The intaglio of a crown, veneer, inlay, and onlay will always be hung up in the same areas. We all know where to look and make adjustments. The spray always stains the die permanently as if to say to the doc, "Yep, we had trouble fitting this, you may too." So I wouldn't use the spray unless I absolutely had to.
sorry senior, vacalon quick check comes off clean as a whistle. And I really don't know where it's going to be holding up each case.
 
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